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Visual Novel Talk


Cy~

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Here I am again! I noticed that there wasn't a visual novel general discussion topic, so I've decided to make one.

 

In case you can't tell already tell, I really like story driven games. In fact, I also have quite a thing for writing. If you smash both of these things together and tilt things in favor of the writing, you get visual novels.

 

A visual novel is a game that is driven solely by its story. It combines words, music, and images (with or without animation) to create the digital equivalent of a choose-your-own-adventure pop up book with a music box inside... Errr... Or something like that...

 

There is actually quite a bit of variety within the Visual Novel genre. Some visual novels give you basically no choices and saturate you in art and music, instead (HIgurashi). Some visual novels are actually stats driven simulations of a high school dating environment (just about every popular VN on steam). Other visual novels mix and match gameplay elements and try different ways of looking at the medium (Analogue: A Hate Story).

 

Now for the reply that I started to make in the other topic, but then I realized that it would be painfully off-topic...

 

Then again, this is why I prefer visual novels more than video games. Choices.

 

Same here! Sort of. I don't actually play many visual novels, at least not to completion. However, I am writing my own visual novel(s) currently, and the time investment is basically shattering. If you count my play time and my development time, then I actually have more time spent on visual novels, at this point, than I have ever spent on any other hobby. :crazy:

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I like visual novels... though I haven't really gone through too many of them, at least not to completion.

 

I was introduced to them fairly indirectly, through the Tsukihime anime, which was, to be frank, a bit shoddy - but it had intrigued me enough that I was left wandering if it had simply been a bad adaptation of a good manga, or something of the sort. I was right, in that it was a bad adaptation - I was wrong, in that it was not an adaptation of a manga. It was an adaptation of a visual novel.

 

From there I ended up finding the fledgling English language Tsukihime fandom, such as it was - it was limited more or less to a single Proboards forum, and a website ran by the forum's founder that had various bits of information regarding Tsukihime, and other type moon properties, that I didn't care about at the time. A terrible mistake.

I never actually got too involved in any of the community stuff, but kept a vague eye on community translation efforts, which eventually bore fruit - I grabbed the full translation patch the moment it was available and immediately set off to woo my waifu, Kohaku.

 

 

Kohaku.(Tsukihime)_full.1396056.jpg.4d7cfd4600d12002421fa2998a18fcda.jpg

 

 

 

I enjoyed the experience, despite some of the more... interesting aspects. :sick:

Anyway, from there, I basically ran around grabbing what few translations I could for things that seemed interesting - a lot of very forgettable things, highschool romances that I couldn't bring myself to get more than ten minutes into, and that sort of stuff. The only noteworthy thing from this period was my stumbling upon Planetarian, which is a god damn work of art.

 

Fast forward a bit, and I'd mostly moved on from visual novels - there just weren't very many being translated at the time, and the ones that were tended to be a bit drab - until I heard about a little birdie titled Saya No Uta that had been recently translated. My interest was grabbed, and so I grabbed the game.

 

 

blarg.thumb.png.8c9ce3c8d2f8c44b6dbfa3340aaf6340.png

 

 

Let's not mince words - the story is fucked up, the characters are fucked up, the core concepts are fucked up, and basically everything about it is fucked up. I didn't care - having what essentially boiled down to a love story starring an eldritch abomination was basically the greatest thing on the planet, and turned me into a slobbering fan girl. I mean, really, in between the cannibalism and murder, it's a very beautiful love story. Really. I just try to forget about the part involving the main character's pre-story love interest. I try really hard. :sick:

 

... okay, so it isn't perfect, and isn't really something I can recommend to anyone due to all of the less than wonderful parts of it, but still. @_@

 

Anyways... I think that about does it for now. :-/

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I have played a few visuals, as they are the most accessible games out, as I have only one usable hand, and I do enjoy them.

 

I really wish games were more accessible for folks with physical disabilities, but that would be pretty difficult

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I've talked about visual novels so often all across the forums already that I feel I've milked out whatever there is to talk about for myself. lol I mean, I've already mentioned my favorite titles in my Ask thread, such as those with amazing stories like Fate/Stay Night and Umineko no Naku Koro ni, or those with a well-designed interface or even gameplay like School Days and Danganronpa.

 

Yep, Danganronpa is a visual novel, believe it or not. Anything that's listed in VNDB is considered a visual novel on some level. However, I do have to note that certain games with existing but very few visual novel elements are not considered visual novels, such as Madoka Magica PSP (NOT the Vita version titled Battle Pentagram; that's an entirely different game), where you have those dialogue texts appearing at the bottom of the screen. I'm not an expert enough to know what truly qualifies a game as a visual novel, so... I'm sorry, but don't ask me. >_<

 

Anyway, the beginner's visual novel that I could recommend is Clannad. Unlike some of the more popular visual novels out there, the first 10-20 hours of Clannad (yes, 10-20) involve comedy routine that is meant to serve as the hook, to get you closer with the characters without boring you with some high school drama you might not care about. These comedic scenes can be really hilarious, though it involves more of slapstick and some over-the-top form of humor, so if you prefer your comedy to be more subtle, this might not be as effective. :P After you're familiar enough with the characters to care about them, however, that's when the story finally sets in and the real reading starts.

 

Another reason I would recommend Clannad for a beginner is because of its exclusively-ADV style. ADV is derived from the term, "adventure", and the ADV type of visual novels have boxes that (usually) only occupy the bottom of the screen, and it (usually) only has character dialogue for you to read as opposed to narrative description of the plot. This is better because a lot more hardcore visual novels have huge chunks of narrative text (usually describing what's happening in the plot) that reads more like a book than a game with dialogue, so if you're not the reading type, then this would be a good place to start.

 

A similar visual novel I would recommend for a beginner is School Days. It's even more devoid of text than Clannad, and only features dialogue, and very simple dialogue at that. No complicated technobabble that forces you to learn the lore of the in-game universe. Simple school life stuff that a casual VN reader should be fine with. Best of all, unlike visual novels in general, it has "cinematic" of sorts, as in the characters actually move in dynamic scenes rather than represented with a static CG image. Of course, the developer, 0verflow, have to compensate this by having cinematic of average quality, so don't expect Fate/Zero type of amazing animation. I feel that it's better than nothing though, as some people can find it boring to stare at an unmoving image all day.

 

But if you're not a fan of gore and controversial sexual content, I would strongly suggest to stay away from School Days, because it's a mix of romance and horror. There are some truly f-ed up scenes you might not be comfortable with.

 

Another thing I should warn the beginning visual novel reader is that you should be prepared to read a lot if you want to complete the whole game. Clannad has an estimated reading time of 50 hours or more. Not kidding. A lot of visual novels tend to be lengthy like that, but there are shorter ones out there with an equally entertaining story... such as Saya no Uta, another disturbing horror story not for the faint of heart, but definitely recommended for Cthulhu fans, because it deals with that part of Lovecraft mythios, and other interesting but nonetheless mature themes I will not spoil.

 

I guess I've written a lot more than I initially intended... lol I shall save the rest of my visual novel thoughts for the future.

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I've always been fascinated by the idea of visual novels, but I wouldn't even know where to start!

I'd definitely want something horror or psychological horror though. Not into all that mushy mushy romance mwah mwah

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I've always been fascinated by the idea of visual novels, but I wouldn't even know where to start!

I'd definitely want something horror or psychological horror though. Not into all that mushy mushy romance mwah mwah

 

I wonder if Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni might be a good fit? It's more a kinetic novel than visual novel though, in the sense that there aren't any story choices to make, but it should scratch the horror itch, I think.

 

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I wonder if Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni might be a good fit? It's more a kinetic novel than visual novel though, in the sense that there aren't any story choices to make, but it should scratch the horror itch, I think.

 

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I thought about it. But honestly, I've seen the higurashi anime much too recently to enjoy a visual novel of it. Like I watched that stuff hard

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I play a lot of Visual novels. Eroge that is.

 

God damned kids and your eroge. :?

 

Would love to see, or play, or both.

 

Hahaha! Yeah, sure, if you're still around at the end of next year, which is when I'll probably be finished with the first one. Please be around! I want to see your thoughts on my worlllld!

 

For the record, I don't write eroge. My stuff has vaguely yuri undertones but that's about it. It's also shamelessly Westernized. A lot of visual novel writers outside of Japan try to make their stuff feel more "otaku" by throwing in cultural references and adjusting their setting and characters. I don't have time for that shit. I can only write what I write. I don't see why I should anime-lize it beyond the artstyle.

 

Yep, Danganronpa is a visual novel, believe it or not.

 

I believe it! It's actually the one that introduced me to the genre. Yup, before that, I didn't even know that they existed! What can I say? I lived a sheltered online life.

 

I shall save the rest of my visual novel thoughts for the future.

 

More! More! That's what this topic is for! (o^.^o)

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I've always been fascinated by the idea of visual novels, but I wouldn't even know where to start!

I'd definitely want something horror or psychological horror though. Not into all that mushy mushy romance mwah mwah

Saya no Uta, period. Psychological horror at its best. It's based on Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythios. Other than that, I cannot spoil. It has a pretty cool twist you might like.

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I thought about it. But honestly, I've seen the higurashi anime much too recently to enjoy a visual novel of it. Like I watched that stuff hard

 

If you want a cousin of Higurashi that might be enjoyable, I recommend Umineko -

 

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Saya no Uta, period. Psychological horror at its best. It's based on Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythios. Other than that, I cannot spoil. It has a pretty cool twist you might like.

Not only does that sound delightful, I love how you slammed that recommendation down with such solid confidence. I'm definitely taking note of this one!

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Saya no Uta, period. Psychological horror at its best. It's based on Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythios. Other than that, I cannot spoil. It has a pretty cool twist you might like.

 

Yeah, though I feel the need to add some disclaimers - as much as I love Saya No Uta, some of the content is not for everyone. There's a lot of sexual content, though it can be easily skipped, some of which may be outside of people's comfort zones.

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visual Novels also have great soundtracks sometimes. I never tire of Clannad's OST or the OST of Sound of Drop.

 

Oh my gosh, yes, I strongly agree with this. To me, the music that accompanies a good visual novel is as much of an experience as the writing and the visuals. All three of these are necessary in order to get a good experience, and when it is done well, it feels almost like a movie.

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Yeah, though I feel the need to add some disclaimers - as much as I love Saya No Uta, some of the content is not for everyone. There's a lot of sexual content, though it can be easily skipped, some of which may be outside of people's comfort zones.

Yeah, I agree with the need for that disclaimer. I think you should definitely give it a chance in spite of the seemingly gory content at first glance. The gore (and even the sexual content) is actually very relevant to the story, and isn't just there for cheap shock factor. That said, yeah, what zoop said, you should at least prepare yourself before reading it.

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Oh my gosh, yes, I strongly agree with this. To me, the music that accompanies a good visual novel is as much of an experience as the writing and the visuals. All three of these are necessary in order to get a good experience, and when it is done well, it feels almost like a movie.

Also makes the feelings of emotional moments, like finding out what the last word of Kotomi Ichinose's parents were and finding out that Mari is dead and will leave forever, that much more emotional.

 

Heck, I sometimes feel like crying when I when I hear the song on the soundtrack because I remember those sad scenes thanks to the music accompanying it.

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Yeah, I agree with the need for that disclaimer. I think you should definitely give it a chance in spite of the seemingly gory content at first glance. The gore (and even the sexual content) is actually very relevant to the story, and isn't just there for cheap shock factor. That said, yeah, what zoop said, you should at least prepare yourself before reading it.

I appreciate the disclaimer simply for anyone else considering it. However, for myself, I am definitely not put off by content such as that

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I appreciate the disclaimer simply for anyone else considering it. However, for myself, I am definitely not put off by content such as that

 

In that case I think you'll be in for a treat.

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Another thing I should warn the beginning visual novel reader is that you should be prepared to read a lot if you want to complete the whole game. Clannad has an estimated reading time of 50 hours or more. Not kidding.

 

There's a semi-apocryphal story regarding this that is popular among the English VN writers. Basically, commercially produced Japanese VNs are that long because the writers were paid per word. It sounds ridiculous until you actually consider the structure of the stories. In most cases, they could have told the same story with far fewer words, and there is a lot of fluff that doesn't really add to things.

 

Like I said, it's apocryphal, but I just felt like throwing that out there, because the ridiculously extreme length of Japanese VNs is actually intimidating as fuck to those that are trying to write a visual novel for the first time. Clannad contains several million words. Let's be reasonable here, that's completely ridiculous. If you have just one or two writers, the time required to write and edit that kind of monstrosity would be prohibitive.

 

Western VNs (also known as OELVNs or Original English Language Visual Novels) tend to be quite a bit shorter. However, they also tend to be put together with shoestring budgets and heavily reliant on volunteer teams. Due to the ridiculous length of the most popular visual novels, I have noticed that small teams are trying to grapple with stories that are bloated beyond belief. The end result - quantity over quality. Currently, there's a bit of a stigma around this in the OELVN community. :?

 

For myself, I am trying to stick to the thought of no more than 75K words per arc. I think it's crazy to write a half a million words for a single arc, and I'd be completely unable to afford art and music assets for a story that's much longer than that, hahahaha.

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Sometimes, I wish To create a VN, but, with my skill set, I am better off just writing the story out.

 

Besides, Kinetic novels, while nice, seem to feel rather pointless, especially World End Economica.

 

Storyline was not too boring in World End Economica, but the story just does not work as a kinetic novel at all, and is probably the most disappointing work associated with Isuna Hasekura.

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Besides, Kinetic novels, while nice, seem to feel rather pointless, especially World End Economica.

 

Wait, wait, wait ,wait, WAIT! World End Economica was a kinetic novel?! Omfg...

 

How stupid would you think I was if I told you that I just sat there waiting for the ability to make a decision and hoping that it was coming right around the corner. Oh geeze. I feel like a silly goose. :blush:

 

Storyline was not too boring in World End Economica, but the story just does not work as a kinetic novel at all, and is probably the most disappointing work associated with Isuna Hasekura.

 

You're completely right about this. It really felt like something where they should have given some choices. I can't believe it was actually a kinetic novel, hahaha. That totally kills my desire to play it, because there isn't much there to play. :'(

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Also makes the feelings of emotional moments, like finding out what the last word of Kotomi Ichinose's parents were and finding out that Mari is dead and will leave forever, that much more emotional.

 

Heck, I sometimes feel like crying when I when I hear the song on the soundtrack because I remember those sad scenes thanks to the music accompanying it.

I hate to say this in a visual novel thread, but I feel it's something that has to be said: anime adaptations of visual novels can sometimes execute emotional music much more effectively than the VN counterpart, simply because the timing of when the music plays is controlled by the director of the anime, not the player of the VN.

 

For example: In Steins;Gate, near the very end, there was one epic scene when Skyclad Observer starts to play. I won't spoil what that scene involves, but you probably already know which one I'm referring to if you've seen the anime, because it's the only part of the anime that plays Skyclad. And god, what a perfect scene to save that song. In the VN, however, while the same song also played near that scene (when Suzuha visits Okabe with the time-machine), I feel it played a bit earlier than needed, and it just doesn't feel as epic or satisfying because [spoiler=Plot Spoilers]Okabe later fails to save Kurisu, and wouldn't receive that message from his future self till later, which is also when Skyclad starts to play in the anime.

It's an unfortunate aspect of visual novels that the anime can sometimes be more effective at.

 

However, that still doesn't stop anime adaptations from being bad. Steins;Gate is a rare exception where a VN adaptation actually excels in some areas (emphasis on SOME), particularly music and animation, due to the benefits an anime has. Clannad is another example, being able to show the emotional scenes much more effectively due to being a moving picture rather than something you click at. But that doesn't mean the you should always choose the anime adaptations over VNs, because the anime tend to miss out on quite a huge amount of content that the studio deemed to be "extra content", even though they can sometimes add more depth to the story (Steins;Gate is ironically an example of this as well, as is Clannad). So it really comes down to what you prefer in a story - more depth to the story or better animation and music execution.

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Wait, wait, wait ,wait, WAIT! World End Economica was a kinetic novel?! Omfg...

 

How stupid would you think I was if I told you that I just sat there waiting for the ability to make a decision and hoping that it was coming right around the corner. Oh geeze. I feel like a silly goose. :blush:

 

 

 

You're completely right about this. It really felt like something where they should have given some choices. I can't believe it was actually a kinetic novel, hahaha. That totally kills my desire to play it, because there isn't much there to play. :'(

 

Yeah, a better Kinetic novel is Narcissu, which, like Clannad and Sound of Drop, has a pretty decent OST.

 

It had absolutely no choices, but it did not seem like it needed any and was much more satisfying.

 

I hate to say this in a visual novel thread, but I feel it's something that has to be said: anime adaptations of visual novels can sometimes execute emotional music much more effectively than the VN counterpart, simply because the timing of when the music plays is controlled by the director of the anime, not the player of the VN.

 

For example: In Steins;Gate, near the very end, there was one epic scene when Skyclad Observer starts to play. I won't spoil what that scene involves, but you probably already know which one I'm referring to if you've seen the anime, because it's the only part of the anime that plays Skyclad. And god, what a perfect scene to save that song. In the VN, however, while the same song also played near that scene (when Suzuha visits Okabe with the time-machine), I feel it played a bit earlier than needed, and it just doesn't feel as epic or satisfying because [spoiler=Plot Spoilers]Okabe later fails to save Kurisu, and wouldn't receive that message from his future self till later, which is also when Skyclad starts to play in the anime.

It's an unfortunate aspect of visual novels that the anime can sometimes be more effective at.

 

However, that still doesn't stop anime adaptations from being bad. Steins;Gate is a rare exception where a VN adaptation actually excels in some areas (emphasis on SOME), particularly music and animation, due to the benefits an anime has. Clannad is another example, being able to show the emotional scenes much more effectively due to being a moving picture rather than something you click at. But that doesn't mean the you should always choose the anime adaptations over VNs, because the anime tend to miss out on quite a huge amount of content that the studio deemed to be "extra content", even though they can sometimes add more depth to the story (Steins;Gate is ironically an example of this as well, as is Clannad). So it really comes down to what you prefer in a story - more depth to the story or better animation and music execution.

 

This is certainly true and I do agree that the anime adaptations can place the music well, but there are also VNs out there that need an anime, but don't have one.

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Speaking of kinetic novels, I think I should talk about the famous Muv-Luv, or rather, its much more beloved sequel, Muv-Luv Alternative. But first, let's consider what makes visual novels so appealing.

 

Visual novels are often compared to video games because of the existence of choices, so there is at least a certain amount of player interaction involved. I feel this is the part that attracts most people, because there's at least something else to interact with other than your mouse you're clicking and your computer screen you're reading off. This is why a lot of kinetic novels become obscure and underrated, even though, due to their linear nature, they can have much better stories than visual novels.

 

A perfect example is Muv-Luv... but it's something I'm not in a good position to talk about because I've never actually played Muv-Luv. :P I've only heard from the word of mouth how amazing the series is. And when you consider that it's compared to the likes of Fate/Stay Night in terms of writing quality, that's really high praise! What I heard about its story is that it's about cherishing your happy moments with your loved ones, so that when the tragic moments come, you wouldn't have taken them for granted. From what I heard, it does seem to be like Clannad in terms of making you cry, and it even has sappy romance moments in the first game of the series, which is meant to introduce and familiarize you with the characters the way Clannad did.

 

Anyway, I feel that we absolutely cannot talk about visual novels without mentioning Muv-Luv Alternative because of how famous it is among readers, highly praised to be a masterpiece by many. I plan to read this someday with great expectations. :D

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