Why SAO: Ordinal Scale makes no sense

WARNING: There will be SPOILERS here, like crazy amount of them, it's the only way to explain the lacking plot and why the movie has issues, so if you haven't watched it yet, go and do that before reading this thread.

So, Ordinal Scale is stupid, possibly the worst SAO has ever done in terms of trying to make a plot make sense. "Whatever do you mean," I hear fans saying, "I actually liked this movie, more than anything SAO has done in a while, what's wrong with it?" My answer is, pretty much everything. The plot doesn't add up at all, most of the fight scenes are pointless, the way Yuna dies makes no sense, how the game came to be doesn't work because it has too much government involvement to get away with anything, the stakes mean nothing because of when the movie takes place, and it's just basically filler for the sake of making an easy buck from fans who will accept TV quality style from a feature length film. I've been trying over the last year to be more positive about most things, but this thing that they've created, makes no sense at all on any film or story levels.

For example, the stealing memory idea is interesting, even more so because it seems like the guy who stole them, wanted SAO survivors to forget their traumatic past, but that all turns out to be moot when he tries to kill them all later towards the end of the film. Also, people who are close to Kirito don't seem to lose enough memory for it to matter. Klein can still remember who broke his arm and what happened to him, and Asuna, despite losing her memories can still fight at about the same level as always, like losing her memories doesn't change her motivations or skills despite playing a reflex based game that would take memory to do properly. There's also the fact that everything up until the film decides to promote SAO video games, takes place in the real world, meaning people are moving faster than should be possible, even with some sort of enhancer helping one of them out, and jumping from heights that should kill, or at least hurt them severely. Speaking of, how the hell does Kirito do that? He starts off not liking the game because he's bad at it because he is somewhat out of shape from playing too many Nervegear games and not actually exercising. However, he gets good at the game in a week by fighting special bosses from SAO instead of actually working out or anything. Anyone who has played any game that has both an PvE and PvP modes knows that the skills you get while playing PvE don't translate very well to PvP, and yet because of Plot Armor, Kirito suddenly becomes the best at the game, not that it even matters, because again, the conclusion of this movie, advertises the actual existing SAO games instead of making sense. Speaking of, how did they get enemies for a government sanctioned video game and product, that actually killed people in real life? Japan is a country that banned Spyro: Year of the Dragon from being released on either PS1 or PS3 because it had marketing focusing on the Chinese Zodiac and a level that put Chinese culture in a positive light. However, monsters partly responsible for killing thousands of Japanese men and women of all ages, that's okay. Another thing, Kirito is a selfish asshole in this movie. Thousands of people lose their memories, including someone who I would think he considers his best friend, and all he cares about is getting Asuna's memory back. Who cares if Klein can remember why he respects Kirito, who cares if his other friends remember why they exercise some form of caution around MMO games, he loves Asuna, and screw the rest of them being motivation for him wanting to get their memories back, what's important is that Asuna remembers why she loves him, even if she still never shows any signs of not loving him.

The argument against what I'm saying is of course "Well it's an anime, what do you expect?" My answer, not a lot, in a fictional world, but this one is supposed to take place in the real world, so I have to hold to at least some real world standards, even if the product itself doesn't do that for plot convenience. It'd be one thing if this took place in some alternate world of Japan, and that was made clear, but as far as we know, it doesn't, at all. This is supposed to be Japan, some 25 years before Excel Saga, which also seems to take place in pretty much the same universe, so any logic that applies there, should apply here, and it doesn't.

I could go on, and on, and on about how many problems this movie has, but suffice it to say, that a movie that should be focused on me suspending my disbelief that fails to do so on every single level, is a bad movie. Sure, the animation is nice most of the time, but Your Name always looks better, and so does Tales of Zesteria the X if I'm being honest. I wanted this movie to be good, I even went into watching it with that expectation that maybe, for the first time since the first arc of season one ended, I could care about these characters again, because they had the possibility to be fairly interesting, but no, plot armor for everyone, even those without dialogue and at a time where none of it makes sense is what we got. I am washing my hands of SAO and hoping we get some for Dot Hack this year, because we need that saving grace, and SAO needs to die, as it should have after just a few episodes.

WARNING: There will be SPOILERS here, like crazy amount of them, it's the only way to explain the lacking plot and why the movie has issues, so if you haven't watched it yet, go and do that before reading this thread.

 

So, Ordinal Scale is stupid, possibly the worst SAO has ever done in terms of trying to make a plot make sense. "Whatever do you mean," I hear fans saying, "I actually liked this movie, more than anything SAO has done in a while, what's wrong with it?" My answer is, pretty much everything. The plot doesn't add up at all, most of the fight scenes are pointless, the way Yuna dies makes no sense, how the game came to be doesn't work because it has too much government involvement to get away with anything, the stakes mean nothing because of when the movie takes place, and it's just basically filler for the sake of making an easy buck from fans who will accept TV quality style from a feature length film. I've been trying over the last year to be more positive about most things, but this thing that they've created, makes no sense at all on any film or story levels.

 

For example, the stealing memory idea is interesting, even more so because it seems like the guy who stole them, wanted SAO survivors to forget their traumatic past, but that all turns out to be moot when he tries to kill them all later towards the end of the film. Also, people who are close to Kirito don't seem to lose enough memory for it to matter. Klein can still remember who broke his arm and what happened to him, and Asuna, despite losing her memories can still fight at about the same level as always, like losing her memories doesn't change her motivations or skills despite playing a reflex based game that would take memory to do properly. There's also the fact that everything up until the film decides to promote SAO video games, takes place in the real world, meaning people are moving faster than should be possible, even with some sort of enhancer helping one of them out, and jumping from heights that should kill, or at least hurt them severely. Speaking of, how the hell does Kirito do that? He starts off not liking the game because he's bad at it because he is somewhat out of shape from playing too many Nervegear games and not actually exercising. However, he gets good at the game in a week by fighting special bosses from SAO instead of actually working out or anything. Anyone who has played any game that has both an PvE and PvP modes knows that the skills you get while playing PvE don't translate very well to PvP, and yet because of Plot Armor, Kirito suddenly becomes the best at the game, not that it even matters, because again, the conclusion of this movie, advertises the actual existing SAO games instead of making sense. Speaking of, how did they get enemies for a government sanctioned video game and product, that actually killed people in real life? Japan is a country that banned Spyro: Year of the Dragon from being released on either PS1 or PS3 because it had marketing focusing on the Chinese Zodiac and a level that put Chinese culture in a positive light. However, monsters partly responsible for killing thousands of Japanese men and women of all ages, that's okay. Another thing, Kirito is a selfish asshole in this movie. Thousands of people lose their memories, including someone who I would think he considers his best friend, and all he cares about is getting Asuna's memory back. Who cares if Klein can remember why he respects Kirito, who cares if his other friends remember why they exercise some form of caution around MMO games, he loves Asuna, and screw the rest of them being motivation for him wanting to get their memories back, what's important is that Asuna remembers why she loves him, even if she still never shows any signs of not loving him.

 

The argument against what I'm saying is of course "Well it's an anime, what do you expect?" My answer, not a lot, in a fictional world, but this one is supposed to take place in the real world, so I have to hold to at least some real world standards, even if the product itself doesn't do that for plot convenience. It'd be one thing if this took place in some alternate world of Japan, and that was made clear, but as far as we know, it doesn't, at all. This is supposed to be Japan, some 25 years before Excel Saga, which also seems to take place in pretty much the same universe, so any logic that applies there, should apply here, and it doesn't.

 

I could go on, and on, and on about how many problems this movie has, but suffice it to say, that a movie that should be focused on me suspending my disbelief that fails to do so on every single level, is a bad movie. Sure, the animation is nice most of the time, but Your Name always looks better, and so does Tales of Zesteria the X if I'm being honest. I wanted this movie to be good, I even went into watching it with that expectation that maybe, for the first time since the first arc of season one ended, I could care about these characters again, because they had the possibility to be fairly interesting, but no, plot armor for everyone, even those without dialogue and at a time where none of it makes sense is what we got. I am washing my hands of SAO and hoping we get some for Dot Hack this year, because we need that saving grace, and SAO needs to die, as it should have after just a few episodes.

Sorry you feel this way but the plot makes complete sense, maybe you need to go back and rewatch it with close attention, your arguments are dull as they explained the exact thing you said was flaw very clearly, maybe you missed it?

And as for the characters being selfish, blah blah blah, just cause you dont understand a characters motivations or heart doesnt makes them selfish.

So yeah.

Sorry you feel this way but the plot makes complete sense, maybe you need to go back and rewatch it with close attention, your arguments are dull as they explained the exact thing you said was flaw very clearly, maybe you missed it?

 

And as for the characters being selfish, blah blah blah, just cause you dont understand a characters motivations or heart doesnt makes them selfish.

 

So yeah.

I doubt I misunderstood anything, but rather than dislike my post and come off as angry, why don't you explain it me as you saw it, and see if you can't convince me a bit. I'm not like most people, If I'm wrong, I'll man up to it. I won't watch it again unless I'm given a good reason though, so why not try and give me that reason.

I doubt I misunderstood anything, but rather than dislike my post and come off as angry, why don't you explain it me as you saw it, and see if you can't convince me a bit. I'm not like most people, If I'm wrong, I'll man up to it. I don't won't watch it again unless I'm given a good reason though, so why not try and give me that reason.

"most of the fight scenes are pointless"

The fight scenes build a sense of how ordinal scale works, they are also how the main villains are gathering the memories from ex sao players, so not pointless at all

"The way Yuna dies makes no makes"

She dies becuase she decides to give the harvested memories back, essentially erasing the AR rrecreation of her and all her data, sacrificing herself for the better good, without the SAO survivors memories she cant exist. Makes complete sense.

"

For example, the stealing memory idea is interesting, even more so because it seems like the guy who stole them, wanted SAO survivors to forget their traumatic past, but that all turns out to be moot when he tries to kill them all later towards the end of the film"

Thats because he needed to use the ordinal scale to extract all the ex SAO memories on one place, a side effect of which was death from the trauma of it and because it had parts of the nerve hear installed, his reason was not to make them forget, that was an excuse he gave kirito to try to justify it to himself.

"Asuna, despite losing her memories can still fight at about the same level as always, like losing her memories doesn't change her motivations or skills despite playing a reflex based game that would take memory to do"

I dont think someone need memories of love to fight properly and besides, she only forgot parts involving kirito

"Your Name always looks better, and so does Tales of Zesteria the X if I'm being honest"

They are competely different animation studios, SAO is A1 pictures, Tales Of is Ufotable

I will give you that they basically ignored klein and his story, they failed thier

"takes place in the real world, meaning people are moving faster than should be possible, even with some sort of enhancer helping one of them out, and jumping from heights that should kill, or at least hurt them severely"

I will give you this as well, although I would argue the speed they are moving is relative to physical ability, and we all ready know all in game things dont effect them, thats why the villain attacks them physically

So thats my thoughts

Personally, and most people here can tell you this, im not a huge SAO fan and it doesnt always get things right, it was plot flawed from many places, but I won't let you attack parts they did get right.

For fans this was amazing and answered alot of questions! For shits sake they got engaged properly! Finally!

And we have that dark twist at the end!

Im personally looking forward to more SAO

I haven't seen the movie yet, I am looking forward to seeing it soon. After I do, I will definitely return to this thread and write about my opinions

Ordinal Scale works like SAO, plain and simple. It

"most of the fight scenes are pointless"

 

The fight scenes build a sense of how ordinal scale works, they are also how the main villains are gathering the memories from ex sao players, so not pointless at all

 

"The way Yuna dies makes no makes"

She dies becuase she decides to give the harvested memories back, essentially erasing the AR rrecreation of her and all her data, sacrificing herself for the better good, without the SAO survivors memories she cant exist. Makes complete sense.

 

"

For example, the stealing memory idea is interesting, even more so because it seems like the guy who stole them, wanted SAO survivors to forget their traumatic past, but that all turns out to be moot when he tries to kill them all later towards the end of the film"

 

Thats because he needed to use the ordinal scale to extract all the ex SAO memories on one place, a side effect of which was death from the trauma of it and because it had parts of the nerve hear installed, his reason was not to make them forget, that was an excuse he gave kirito to try to justify it to himself.

 

"Asuna, despite losing her memories can still fight at about the same level as always, like losing her memories doesn't change her motivations or skills despite playing a reflex based game that would take memory to do"

 

I dont think someone need memories of love to fight properly and besides, she only forgot parts involving kirito

 

"Your Name always looks better, and so does Tales of Zesteria the X if I'm being honest"

 

They are competely different animation studios, SAO is A1 pictures, Tales Of is Ufotable

 

 

I will give you that they basically ignored klein and his story, they failed thier

 

"takes place in the real world, meaning people are moving faster than should be possible, even with some sort of enhancer helping one of them out, and jumping from heights that should kill, or at least hurt them severely"

 

I will give you this as well, although I would argue the speed they are moving is relative to physical ability, and we all ready know all in game things dont effect them, thats why the villain attacks them physically

 

So thats my thoughts

Personally, and most people here can tell you this, im not a huge SAO fan and it doesnt always get things right, it was plot flawed from many places, but I won't let you attack parts they did get right.

 

For fans this was amazing and answered alot of questions! For shits sake they got engaged properly! Finally!

 

And we have that dark twist at the end!

 

Im personally looking forward to more SAO

Ordinal Scale looks like SAO, even the action is the same, which is odd enough and honestly another flaw because that's like telling the viewers that Dynasty Warriors plays like Final Fantasy XV. Point is, we only need one battle to get an idea of what little differences there are between it, and well, everything but ALO because it's exactly the same without flying. You can't justify spending all this time with Kirito fighting against AI either, that was literally there to add to the run time of the film. You never mentioned anything about that either, so I assume you must agree.

Even if I accepted that, there's still some huge flaws in that logic, namely that Nervegear wasn't designed to be fatal unless it's overloaded, that was a huge reason why SAO was available to sold to the public in the first place, because it was considered safe. Also, how does that cause death? We are lead to believe that the drones, which by the way a government would never get approval to have all over the place like that, somehow coming together makes the overload happen, but it's not explained how, even though all we would need would be a sentence or two telling us that they are wireless and that's how they are connected. I can give that maybe he was trying to excuse himself to Kirito, but that doesn't explain why he, or any of the thousands of survivors of SAO didn't start feeling like they were being set up to be trapped when they were given free Augma, and free tickets to the concert at the end. After it was made clear that SAO survivors were being attacked and having their memories wiped, that should have been obvious. Kirito and the gang have solved more difficult mysteries than that. Hell, it was Kirito being smarter than that which got all the survivors out of SAO in the first place.

Yuna's death doesn't make sense because there were a few different ways that her data could have been fine, she mostly dies because she was connected to the monster they went all video game on, and she easily could have been backed up somewhere to prevent the death. There was a character in Dot Hack, which by the way, SAO borrows quite a few elements from dot hack, named Aura who was so well backed up that she survived having the game she was in practically melted in a fire, then having it made almost completely from scratch, before the sequel game, which she was in was discontinued only to show up in a third game with a third set of servers she had to be a part of somehow. Yet because anime movies based on, or around, anime shows that existed first, have to have a character show up just for that movie so they can die for dramatic effect, Yuna was not backed up in any way, shape or form, even though this is the same anime where Kirito managed to back up Yui all on his own in one of the most bullshit ways ever. No, Yuna could have been saved, but they needed a dramatic death, so there you go.

Asuna may have been a skilled fighter, and several of her fights may have been without Kirito, but her most difficult fights he was there for. Despite the anime attempting to put weight on other parts of the show that might matter as much as they did in SAO, nothing can hold a candle to literally being made to fight for your lives for years at such a young age. If she had showed any signs of being a bit weaker but getting past it and doing what she needed to regardless, I would have been fine with it, but that didn't happen either. Also, the relationship with Asuna is flawed. Kirito nearly cheats on her all the time, which gives her the one note of being the jealous type, and also sees her out of the picture a lot. The anime wants me to feel for them as a couple, but a few moments here and there since SAO make that really hard to believe, even more so because Kirito has had many similar moments with other characters, devaluing the ones he had with Asuna. If the harem hadn't existed as a way to try and get people to keep coming back to the show because of all the attractive women, despite the fact that most are too young to be ogled at for most if not all of the series, and the relationship with Asuna and Kirito was focused on instead, and those characters that were part of the harem were instead multi-note characters who weren't defined by either being a part of the haren or not, I would care more, but that's not how that plays out at all. I don't give a damn about Asuna and Kirito, because the show and movie only do when they need an excuse to the romantic fix so many anime fans want in their shows.

As for the animation, thankfully my counter for that is much shorter, Tales of Zesteria the X, is a TV show, not a movie. Ever since before I was born, animated films have had a bigger animation budget than animated TV shows, therefore there's no excuse that can be given for an animated TV series, to look better than an animated movie that comes out around the same time. Do you know how many years it took for an animated TV show to look better than Snow White? I'll give you Your Name, sure, but there's no excuse for a TV show that comes out at the same time as movie, to look better than a film, ever. That has not happened since even once save for straight to DVD or TV films.

I know this thread is more than a year old, but I recently watched the movie while I loved the series and after reading the posts I agree with RepentantSky's post for the most part...

" This is supposed to be Japan, some 25 years before Excel Saga, which also seems to take place in pretty much the same universe ..."

I suppose you meant "Accel World". Excel Saga seems to be an entire different anime although I haven't watched either of them. But giving the fact that an SAO game is themed around Accel World I would say it is a really strong indicator. Especially if you consider that AW takes place in the time you mentioned while ES does not.

Asuna being a badass at the end of the movie is perfectly fine. She did not just fought in SAO, but in ALO as well. Hell, the most difficult fight in her entire life, against and with Sekken aka Yuuki, was in New Aincrad of ALO, not neccessarily in SAO. So whiping clean all thouse memories by just targeting the ones of SAO is close to impossible at best.

My biggest problem with the movie however are the villans. In fact after reflecting their motives and actions I head real headache. Adding to the point above of not caring fore people dying in the end while claiming to act benefitial to the SAO survivors, why the hell did they wanted the memory of SAO players in the first place? For the less than 2 years - depending on how early Yuna died in SAO - of memories of her that most of those people don't have to begin with? What a retarded move is that? The father should know her better and for a much longer period of time than anyone in the entire world and yet he wants the memory 6,000 SAO survivors? Why not scanning his memories instead? And even if he wanted to add that time she spent in SAO to what he could have contribute, why go for such extreme measures?

On a side note: the idea of stealing memories is bullshit to begin with. Memories are data, data can be read and copied without erasing or damaging it. The human brain is no difference, just a bit more complicated. But if he is able to read the human memory and able to process that data a simple and continuous scan of those areas would not only decrease the suspicion of something fishy going on, it would also achieve more reliable data about Yuna without causing any damage to the brain at all. And it would have given the story authors more room to make the enemies more relateable than a bunch of moronic hypcrites that they are. Or maybe even introduced an interesting plot twist.

But, if you don't think about the plot and just enjoy the VFX, you will not be disappointed - at least compared to the anime series.

34 minutes ago, Medusa Zenovka said:

I know this thread is more than a year old, but I recently watched the movie while I loved the series and after reading the posts I agree with RepentantSky's post for the most part...

 

" This is supposed to be Japan, some 25 years before Excel Saga, which also seems to take place in pretty much the same universe ..."

I suppose you meant "Accel World". Excel Saga seems to be an entire different anime although I haven't watched either of them. But giving the fact that an SAO game is themed around Accel World I would say it is a really strong indicator. Especially if you consider that AW takes place in the time you mentioned while ES does not.

 

Asuna being a badass at the end of the movie is perfectly fine. She did not just fought in SAO, but in ALO as well. Hell, the most difficult fight in her entire life, against and with Sekken aka Yuuki, was in New Aincrad of ALO, not neccessarily in SAO. So whiping clean all thouse memories by just targeting the ones of SAO is close to impossible at best.

 

My biggest problem with the movie however are the villans. In fact after reflecting their motives and actions I head real headache. Adding to the point above of not caring fore people dying in the end while claiming to act benefitial to the SAO survivors, why the hell did they wanted the memory of SAO players in the first place? For the less than 2 years - depending on how early Yuna died in SAO - of memories of her that most of those people don't have to begin with? What a retarded move is that? The father should know her better and for a much longer period of time than anyone in the entire world and yet he wants the memory 6,000 SAO survivors? Why not scanning his memories instead? And even if he wanted to add that time she spent in SAO to what he could have contribute, why go for such extreme measures?

On a side note: the idea of stealing memories is bullshit to begin with. Memories are data, data can be read and copied without erasing or damaging it. The human brain is no difference, just a bit more complicated. But if he is able to read the human memory and able to process that data a simple and continuous scan of those areas would not only decrease the suspicion of something fishy going on, it would also achieve more reliable data about Yuna without causing any damage to the brain at all. And it would have given the story authors more room to make the enemies more relateable than a bunch of moronic hypcrites that they are. Or maybe even introduced an interesting plot twist.

 

But, if you don't think about the plot and just enjoy the VFX, you will not be disappointed - at least compared to the anime series.

I don't think you thought about what you said.. First fix your grammar second I don't remember the "Villan" saying directly he was being beneficial to the survivors but whatever.

, why the hell did they wanted the memory of SAO players in the first place?

 HE WANTED THE MEMORIES TO CREATE HIS DAUGHTER.

For the less than 2 years - depending on how early Yuna died in SAO - of memories of her that most of those people don't have to begin with? What a retarded move is that? The father should know her better and for a much longer period of time than anyone in the entire world and yet he wants the memory 6,000 SAO survivors?

He wanted any and all memories of her take it from his view HE doesn't know if she was popular or well know and doesn't know who had memories of her but every memory helped his goal, is she knew a bunch of people he wasn't gonna go and ask all 6000.

Why not scanning his memories instead? And even if he wanted to add that time she spent in SAO to what he could have contribute, why go for such extreme measures?

Are you ignorant? He wants to see his daughter again he isn't gonna scan his own memories just to forget her, like wtf think. And what extreme measures are you referring to?

On a side note: the idea of stealing memories is bullshit to begin with. Memories are data, data can be read and copied without erasing or damaging it.

How will you copy an electrical output in the brain in a small area that holds the memories of a conversation without hurting the brain? And stealing memories ITS A MOVIE ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLEX AND TWISTED you have 2 hours start and finish not 6-8 hours which is a ruf estimate of 24 episodes so you can't have some crazy plan....

But if he is able to read the human memory and able to process that data a simple and continuous scan of those areas would not only decrease the suspicion of something fishy going on, it would also achieve more reliable data about Yuna without causing any damage to the brain at all.

Did you even think on this one... They would need a WHOLE NEW PLOT, and did you watch the show the traumatic stress of taking a memory killed them... And they took memories from them maybe that was the only way.

ALSO @RepentantSky I will respond to your points later if you still feel the same.

I do feel the same but I have no drive to talk about SAO anymore. It's not something I enjoy or want to spend time on because of how much it bothers me. 

21 minutes ago, RepentantSky said:

I do feel the same but I have no drive to talk about SAO anymore. It's not something I enjoy or want to spend time on because of how much it bothers me. 

BOOOOO DEBATES = DISCUSSION

DISCUSSION = OPEN MINDEDNESS

I've said everything I need to about SAO on multiple different threads here and even on other forums. There's nothing I have left to say about it. Maybe when the next season comes up, but I'm not even watching the GGO thing that's going on now, or whenever that happens. I just can't be bothered to care right now. 

"I don't remember the "Villan" saying directly he was being beneficial to the survivors but whatever."
He presented it as a justification or argument to Kirito.

"And what extreme measures are you referring to?"

Erasing memory, taking the risk of permanently damaging people or even killing them... I'd say that is extreme.

"He wanted any and all memories of her take it from his view HE doesn't know if she was popular or well know and doesn't know who had memories of her but every memory helped his goal, is she knew a bunch of people he wasn't gonna go and ask all 6000."

Did I make an impression that I did't know what his goal was? Asking them would have been a difficult and boring task (plot-wise), but it would have got the job done well. My motto is: think of a good reason to be/do evil. Willing to sacrifice thousands of people for just retrieving memories of someone you loved is a poor and stupid reason that makes the movie much worse than it could be. Its something any idiot can make up in less than 5 minutes. Even Kayabas reasons for making a death game - up until now - were more plausible than this.

"ITS A MOVIE ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLEX AND TWISTED you have 2 hours start and finish not 6-8 hours which is a ruf estimate of 24 episodes so you can't have some crazy plan...."

Yes, you can.

"Did you even think on this one... They would need a WHOLE NEW PLOT"

And a new plot instead of this shitty one would be a bad thing?

"Are you ignorant? He wants to see his daughter again he isn't gonna scan his own memories just to forget her, like wtf think."

Those memories of the SAO survivors are nothing compared to his memories of her. So how do these memories reconstruct his daughter in any meaningful way without his contribution?

"... How will you copy an electrical output in the brain in a small area that holds the memories of a conversation without hurting the brain? ...and did you watch the show the traumatic stress of taking a memory killed them... And they took memories from them maybe that was the only way."

Reference please. I only know of Akihiko Kayaba who would fit your argument, but thats a poor example. In the second half of the first season they were pretty close to controlling someones mind and they were able to implant and read memory on demand. Additionally it turned out no one got harmed by those experiments. So in other words, going by the lore, it was already possible to get their memory of Yuna without cooking their brains.

"And what extreme measures are you referring to?"

Erasing memory, taking the risk of permanently damaging people or even killing them... I'd say that is extreme.

IF it wasn't extreme there wouldn't be any point to the movie.

"He wanted any and all memories of her take it from his view HE doesn't know if she was popular or well know and doesn't know who had memories of her but every memory helped his goal, is she knew a bunch of people he wasn't gonna go and ask all 6000."

Did I make an impression that I did't know what his goal was? Asking them would have been a difficult and boring task (plot-wise), but it would have got the job done well. My motto is: think of a good reason to be/do evil. Willing to sacrifice thousands of people for just retrieving memories of someone you loved is a poor and stupid reason that makes the movie much worse than it could be. Its something any idiot can make up in less than 5 minutes. Even Kayabas reasons for making a death game - up until now - were more plausible than this.

Yes it would have gotten the part of knowing who had the memories but than he still have to take them, so it would be more exciting to take all 6000.

"ITS A MOVIE ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLEX AND TWISTED you have 2 hours start and finish not 6-8 hours which is a ruf estimate of 24 episodes so you can't have some crazy plan...."

Yes, you can.

No you can't

"Did you even think on this one... They would need a WHOLE NEW PLOT"

And a new plot instead of this shitty one would be a bad thing?

Yes, some people enjoyed the movie, there doesn't need to be an explanation for everything in the movie.

"Are you ignorant? He wants to see his daughter again he isn't gonna scan his own memories just to forget her, like wtf think."

Those memories of the SAO survivors are nothing compared to his memories of her. So how do these memories reconstruct his daughter in any meaningful way without his contribution?

He as a father wanted to see his daughter, he did not want to forget her so he did not want to give up his memories, and the boy she loved in the game knew her vary well also and gave a large contribution to her memories.

"... How will you copy an electrical output in the brain in a small area that holds the memories of a conversation without hurting the brain? ...and did you watch the show the traumatic stress of taking a memory killed them... And they took memories from them maybe that was the only way."

Reference please. I only know of Akihiko Kayaba who would fit your argument, but thats a poor example. In the second half of the first season they were pretty close to controlling someones mind and they were able to implant and read memory on demand. Additionally it turned out no one got harmed by those experiments. So in other words, going by the lore, it was already possible to get their memory of Yuna without cooking their brains.

No, they were able to make them dream a good dream by triggering parts of the brain, I think you misinterpret, controlling someones thoughts is different than creating Yuna.

IF you want to continue this we can make a separate thread.

On 5/6/2018 at 2:20 AM, Greeneyes said:

ITS A MOVIE ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLEX AND TWISTED you have 2 hours start and finish not 6-8 hours which is a ruf estimate of 24 episodes so you can't have some crazy plan....

This is the only part that hurt to read.

Well I'd be lying, a lot of sudden rage in this thread hurt to read, but anyways.

Of COURE you can have a deep and complex storyline fit into a movie, 2 hours is MORE than enough to do that. Ordinal Scale simply never tried to be deep or complex in any way, shape, or form, but it was also trying to be a serious movie, so this wound up being a massive downfall.

Go and watch Paprika. Koe no Katachi. AURA: Koga Maryuin's Last War. Maybe even Patema Inverted, or perhaps Tokyo Godfathers.

All of these are examples of movies which were executed incredibly well without being blatantly dumb. ESPECIALLY Paprika. All of them have stories that are more complex than Ordinal Scale's, and if I recall, most of those are actually shorter than Ordinal Scale.

I don't want to drag the thread off course however. I agree with the original post basically across the board.

Ordinal Scale is every bit as full of asspulls and poor judgment as the previous 2 seasons were. It has an awful habit of wanting to be a super good serious franchise, but almost always fails in trying to do the things that it wants to do to make it good.

Yes, "good" is subjective, but I'm referring more to how its written than the actual quality of it.

People will always go ape over it because it's SAO. SAO has a large fanbase because "isekai" and OP MC and the average anime watcher eats that shit up like mad.

I don't give a flying fuck who does or doesn't like it or not, you can like what you want to like, I cannot, and will not ever try to stop someone from having their own opinion on something like that, but I will also never regard mainline SAO as "good" because of all the terrible decisions it makes because it KNOWS it can get away with it because it has a fantasy setting with an OP edgy MC that gets all the girls.

And now I will mention that I am actually genuinely enjoying Alternative Gun Gale Online. It has its themes set, it still has a bit of fun with having a powerful main character, but it isn't sacrificing itself or hiding behind cheap tricks to make said powerful character super ridiculously OP. In fact, if it weren't due to actual tactics, she would have gottem her ass handed to her on multiple occasions. There is absolutely no "running straight at the enemy and killing them with the power of yelling louder than them", there's actual tactics and that already sets it apart fantastically.

I just wanna say SAO makes complete sense and it’s plot. Maybe because the plot didn’t go your way does not mean I didnt make sense. 

Acctualy I shouldn’t say this because this is acctualy a very old thread but still I had to. 

1 hour ago, Part_time_anime said:

I just wanna say SAO makes complete sense and it’s plot. Maybe because the plot didn’t go your way does not mean I didnt make sense. 

Acctualy I shouldn’t say this because this is acctualy a very old thread but still I had to. 

I'm sorry what? I'm not gonna talk much about SAO, because like I said, my drive for talking about it has pretty petered out, and in fact even typing this and thinking about it annoys me, but you thinking that I don't think SAO makes sense because it didn't go where I wanted it to is pretty stupid. I don't normally get angry at people for not agreeing with me, and in fact I'm not even really angry about that, but don't you dare think I spent all the time that I did dissecting the plot and where it doesn't make sense based on facts from the real world and video games in general that have to apply to it because the setting it has, as I didn't like where it was going. That completely disregards every single point I tried to make, the effort I put into making them, and makes you come off like a fool. I actually take offense to this post.