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Artificial Intelligence and self driving cars


Illusion of Terra

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Since this came up somewhere else, why not make a topic out of it. What do you think of artificial intelligence being developed, especially in the case of self driving cars?

I think that many great things will be possible using it (such as disabled people being able to drive somewhere) but there are quite a few things which might be hazardous. It's interesting to see that some ancient philosophical problems are gaining attention when it comes to self-driving cars, such as what to actually program into them i.e. should a car kill the others on the road or kill its passengers instead in an accident? But if you'd program it to kill the passenger, who would buy a car that would kill you instead of other people on the road.
When it comes to AI in general, machine learning seems to be the new thing. Two of my colleagues researched and developed machine learning procedures (mostly genetic ones). I got the main idea behind it, and the thing I find most problematic is when an AI could potentially change its own code. From what I got, now they mostly distribute different weights to different ways of solving a quite pre-defined task, meaning that the main thing is programmed. But if the AI learns to change its code past the task, the effects might be different from what was intended.

Edited by Illusion of Terra
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I'm all up for a Tohsaka-Bot
Apart from that I am fully against AI, Just the thought of self driving cars scares me a bit.
There will be a time where we will destroy ourselves by doing this.

Let's say AI doesn't destroy us and we get very far with this.
If everything Is done using robots etc.
We would only be doing the things we like cause 95% of the jobs will be occupied by Robots.
Then It wont be fun anymore because It will become normal. 
Life will be boring.
(Okay maybe I'm going a bit to far into the future)

As long as we know where we should draw the line then I'm down for researching Into AI, Otherwise It might learn things we don't want It to learn, but I don't think we can.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Humbby said:

As long as we know where we should draw the line then I'm down for researching Into AI, Otherwise It might learn things we don't want It to learn, but I don't think we can.

So what restrictions would you suggest? In genetics for example, it is that you are usually not allowed to sequence and change most coding regions of your DNA or create crazy hybrids like humanzee (human chimpanzee). What would that in AI be?
When it comes to self driving cars, I would not be against them if they show to cause less accidents than humans. But you would still have the issue of how to solve the ethical dilemma I mentioned.

What would be great is an AI that does all the house work stuff!

Edited by Illusion of Terra
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1 hour ago, Illusion of Terra said:

So what restrictions would you suggest? In genetics for example, it is that you are usually not allowed to sequence and change most coding regions of your DNA or create crazy hybrids like humanzee (human chimpanzee). What would that in AI be?
When it comes to self driving cars, I would not be against them if they show to cause less accidents than humans. But you would still have the issue of how to solve the ethical dilemma I mentioned.

What would be great is an AI that does all the house work stuff!

1. Okay so my english Isn't the best so I'm not sure If I understand 100% what you mean. I would say messing with DNA Is also bad, tho If we could find a way to change our DNA without dying to cure (I dont know the english word) Illnesses you might have because of your parents then I'd say It's alright. It's just a scary thought that we can already (or nearly) make perfect people.

2. If self driving cars prove to be safer I'm down, but there are a few things that wont be fixed:
    You always have some Idiots who want to go really fast, break rules etc.
    Even though your car Is driving for you, you still need to pay attention because they might make mistakes In some cases. But the human brain cant concentrate on that for too long because you aren't doing anything, you cant think a lot either cause you'll lose focus and when something happens you won't be able to react.

It's the same as driving the very long straight road In Australia eventually you won't focus anymore because there's almost nothing to focus on.

 

God, I need to improve Vocab, otherwise I will be making very long sentences again.

Edited by Humbby
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@Humbby Oh so you would prefer something like half-self-driving, where the car drives but humans have to watch out most of the time. Tesla is doing something similar to this already, but I'd say it still is in a beta phase.
So you would be against cars where you can sit in and not drive at all? Assume that these fully self driving cars would cause less accidents than the half-self-driving ones, would you then prefer the fully self driving ones? Or would you say that, even though statistically they would cause less accidents, you would still prefer not to leave the full driving to the AI? Kinda like people who fear flying but know it's safer than driving.

I think your English is great :)

Edited by Illusion of Terra
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You Got me there Since I have a fear of flying. 

But most and biggest accidents happen because of people breaking rules. You will still be able to control the self driving car because otherwise it would be illegal (Atleast from what Ive heard). So even though you will prevent accidents most of them are small.

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22 hours ago, Illusion of Terra said:

What would be great is an AI that does all the house work stuff!

Totally on board with this idea!  Any time I can get someone/something else to do the drudge work for me I call that a win.  :D 

I wouldn't want to have it run my life for me though.  That's where I see things beginning to be problematic.  The person has to be intelligent/educated/rational enough to direct things or we'll lose control.  As a corollary to that the AIs have to be sophisticated enough to know when the human directing them is telling them to do something that's unsafe or "unwise" (whatever that means), explain the problem, AND LET THEM DO IT if the person insists.  The biggest trap I think will be programming the AI to "protect" its human whether the human wants it or not.  The line between "protect" and "control" is very thin.

There will be pressures to cross that line for corporate or political reasons too.  For instance, I don't have any problem with self-driving cars in principle, but when the car is under the control of its AI it will be making decisions based on the programmer, not me.  The programmer(s) in turn will be directed by their corporation's rules and regulations, not necessarily the wishes of or even what's best for the owners & occupants (i.e. me and my friends and family) riding in the car.  That's a concern.  What happens in the high-stakes "edge cases" will be critical.  In an accident should the car act to minimize property damage even if it injures the people riding in the car?  If the car has a choice of 2 actions, one of which will likely kill two pedestrians, and the other kill an occupant of the car, which action should it take?  What would you do as the owner of the car if it decided in favor of the pedestrians and one of your family members died?  What would you do as a family member of one of the pedestrians if the car was programmed to protect its passengers at all costs?

There will no doubt be lawsuits.  Of course the companies making the AIs will be acting to minimize the damage from the lawsuits.  At least part of that will mean modifying or weighting the decisions that the AI makes in ways that the owner of the car might not agree with.  As the potential user of an AI, how would you even know if the AI will do what you want in such circumstances?  I'd want to know, preferably before I get to the "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." stage.  :) 

 

18 hours ago, Wedgy said:

Don't like the AI bit, but if driving was more automated I could probably get behind that. Mind my reasoning is very much on the surface because I believe there are too many people who simply suck dishwater at driving, so much in fact I think it would be a lot safer to do so. Too many people getting behind the wheel when they are too drunk, too old, too scared, etc 

A lot of times even when those people do get into accidents they're allowed to keep their license and get back behind the wheel because the impact on their lives of not being allowed to drive at all is considered extreme enough to trigger the "cruel and unusual" clause in the Constitution.  (Personally I'd say they should have considered that before they got drunk enough to get in the accident and take their license anyway, but that's just me.)  If self-driving cars were a common thing then that would at least give society and the courts another option to restrict such people's irresponsible behavior without impacting their ability to get to work, the doctor, the grocery store, etc.

 

Edited by efaardvark
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I have followed a bit the tech news related to this, and so far I think from what I keep hearing anyway it is certainly promising. Though it dose make me worried as well because it will require more infrastructure then most realize. For example you will need a monitoring system of some form which will be controlled by of course a service provider sort of like a cell phone. The other issue is the legilation aka laws surrounding not only the use of level 5 cars, but how to pay for such a service from a provider. Like what happens if you do not pay your bill. Dose the connection to their servers get cut like your phone gets shut off. If that were to happen randomly while driving could be catastrophic.

So I am all for it if they can make a good system and laws that are not to overbarring, but at the same time strict enough for bother car owners, and server admins/SPs to where things would be both safe as well as fordable.

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