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Serge heartless

You going to see the joker?

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The Joker is coming out soon, and was going to see it.  I love how the media thinks its going to turn white men evil. lol.  Im not sure why they are acting like this. Even before this, a lot of horror movies, and bad guys in movies are the rejects of society. Its nothing new. 

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I won't speak much on it - for starters it's not my kind of movie, so I won't be seeing it anyway.  However, it is interesting to see all of the threat chatter that seems to be going on.  I've seen now several reports that there are concerns over the potential for mass shootings by domestic terror groups at the opening - kind of like the Batman movie.  At any rate, count me out on this one.  Superhero/villain movies weren't my thing anyway I spose.

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Its mostly cause people want to blame other people for their problems. No one now a days wants to own up for their own faults. Like Columbine shooting, how they were trying to blame video games. Of course no one wants to talk about how their parents never checked up on them. And never check on what they were doing. 

I also think the internet sites like Tumblr, Twitter and so on love to blame white men for all their own problems.  Society now a days wants everyone to agree with them about everything. If you are different, or think different, people will not like you. Theres a old saying people hate what they don't understand.  People don't like the idea of people rebelling against societies ideas. If you are a white man, people will blame you for just being white.  

If you are different people will not like you, instead of blaming other people for your problems, or movies or games, instead you should be helping these people. Instead a lot easier just to blame everyone, and not teach how being different is good. 

Edited by Serge heartless
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Some friends and I are going to see it on the opening weekend. Apparently, my theater will be banning excessively concealing attire. Like long coats- etc. I hear other theaters are prohibiting costumes and face paint, though I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not? It's a real bummer to see that sort of thing happening. 

9 hours ago, Serge heartless said:

Its mostly cause people want to blame other people for their problems. No one now a days wants to own up for their own faults. Like Columbine shooting, how they were trying to blame video games. Of course no one wants to talk about how their parents never checked up on them. And never check on what they were doing. 

I also think the internet sites like Tumblr, Twitter and so on love to blame white men for all their own problems.  Society now a days wants everyone to agree with them about everything. If you are different, or think different, people will not like you. Theres a old saying people hate what they don't understand.  People don't like the idea of people rebelling against societies ideas. If you are a white man, people will blame you for just being white.  

If you are different people will not like you, instead of blaming other people for your problems, or movies or games, instead you should be helping these people. Instead a lot easier just to blame everyone, and not teach how being different is good. 

I think that when it's related to significant crimes that involve the fatality of others. Mental illness is often hazardously neglected. I see a lot of people, regarding the context of this film, commenting on how "stupid" and "illogical" one would have to be to not be able to recognize reality from Fiction. Only, a mentally compromised individual in this extremity can never fully be logical. It's virtually impossible for them to take responsibility for their delusions. I think people try to blame things to have some clarity. Considering that most of these crimes are complex, and outside of any reasoning. If creative art can inspire positive impact it can surely inspire negative ones too. You just never know what kind of content will prompt some unstable person. Now, obviously you can't live in fear and art should never be censored but it doesn't make tragic events non-existant. If people want to be afraid then I guess they have a right to be. My problem is how that fear is being dealt with and it's an overall shame regardless. 

Also, I sort of think that Internet debates and influences are a bit of a minority. You can read a lot of negative input online and just never really experience it in reality. One of the reasons why I never joined any social media was because of how dishonest people felt with their opinions. Some do it for the comedy/reaction and never personally believe in what they're posting. Some for attention or to join in on what others are doing. 

An example I can share was that I fell into this very trap and worried over online opinion about the movie Captain Marvel. I like comics and I'm no feminist or had any agenda going into this movie. So, I purchased some merchandise because it's something I like doing for movies. Just experience the fun and celebrate comics. After reading all the hostile remarks by random people online I got nervous wearing my shirt and cap to the opening. I still did but felt uneasy walking in at first, like some bystander would call it out. Once I got in the theater, I felt like such an idiot. So many people dressed up and were having such a good time. Guys were cosplaying Carol Danvers for the sake of good humor, the servers were dressed up too and we were all just very excited. No one, not a single person, was there to make any sort of needless trouble. Went a second time with a friend and it was the same. I had no idea why I lent such a serious ear to the web. I've never experienced anything bad that was circulating on there and openly aggressive opinions have been around on the web for years now! Reality is certainly very different and it was good exposure to be reminded on taking the Internet with a grain of salt. 

This whole comment is my personal opinion of course. There are just times I find it a bit ironic that people consumed with surfing the web have this idea that society is a certain way. If they don't experience the reality of life and certain situations then online information and behaviorisms are the only information they're receiving and exposed to. As I've seen, the net is filled with trolls, needless hate, aggressive opinions, and forced point-making. Most people use it to vent their collective frustrations and others end up in the crosshairs, unfortunately. It's definitely not a healthy place to deeply ponder over. 

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6 hours ago, IIVIsouljam said:

Some friends and I are going to see it on the opening weekend. Apparently, my theater will be banning excessively concealing attire. Like long coats- etc. I hear other theaters are prohibiting costumes and face paint, though I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not? It's a real bummer to see that sort of thing happening. 

I think that when it's related to significant crimes that involve the fatality of others. Mental illness is often hazardously neglected. I see a lot of people, regarding the context of this film, commenting on how "stupid" and "illogical" one would have to be to not be able to recognize reality from Fiction. Only, a mentally compromised individual in this extremity can never fully be logical. It's virtually impossible for them to take responsibility for their delusions. I think people try to blame things to have some clarity. Considering that most of these crimes are complex, and outside of any reasoning. If creative art can inspire positive impact it can surely inspire negative ones too. You just never know what kind of content will prompt some unstable person. Now, obviously you can't live in fear and art should never be censored but it doesn't make tragic events non-existant. If people want to be afraid then I guess they have a right to be. My problem is how that fear is being dealt with and it's an overall shame regardless. 

Also, I sort of think that Internet debates and influences are a bit of a minority. You can read a lot of negative input online and just never really experience it in reality. One of the reasons why I never joined any social media was because of how dishonest people felt with their opinions. Some do it for the comedy/reaction and never personally believe in what they're posting. Some for attention or to join in on what others are doing. 

An example I can share was that I fell into this very trap and worried over online opinion about the movie Captain Marvel. I like comics and I'm no feminist or had any agenda going into this movie. So, I purchased some merchandise because it's something I like doing for movies. Just experience the fun and celebrate comics. After reading all the hostile remarks by random people online I got nervous wearing my shirt and cap to the opening. I still did but felt uneasy walking in at first, like some bystander would call it out. Once I got in the theater, I felt like such an idiot. So many people dressed up and were having such a good time. Guys were cosplaying Carol Danvers for the sake of good humor, the servers were dressed up too and we were all just very excited. No one, not a single person, was there to make any sort of needless trouble. Went a second time with a friend and it was the same. I had no idea why I lent such a serious ear to the web. I've never experienced anything bad that was circulating on there and openly aggressive opinions have been around on the web for years now! Reality is certainly very different and it was good exposure to be reminded on taking the Internet with a grain of salt. 

This whole comment is my personal opinion of course. There are just times I find it a bit ironic that people consumed with surfing the web have this idea that society is a certain way. If they don't experience the reality of life and certain situations then online information and behaviorisms are the only information they're receiving and exposed to. As I've seen, the net is filled with trolls, needless hate, aggressive opinions, and forced point-making. Most people use it to vent their collective frustrations and others end up in the crosshairs, unfortunately. It's definitely not a healthy place to deeply ponder over. 

Well society doesn't like different kinds of people, kids get picked on at school still to this day. Men get treated more as losers then females also, if you are in your 30s-40s and single and can't get a girlfriend, people or your friends think theres something wrong with you, or think you are a loser. If you are in your 30s-40s living with your parents, you also will be labeled as a loser.  Now lets say a female is in her 30s-40s and single, not many people are going to think she's a loser.  Or living with her parents is a loser.  Then these men go online and see that internet sites are blaming them for everything just cause they are white. Society keeps poking and poking at them.  Its like catching a wild animal in a cage, and poking it over and over again, then it finally bites you, and you blame the animal for abusing it.  

Edited by Serge heartless

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36 minutes ago, Serge heartless said:

Well society doesn't like different kinds of people, kids get picked on at school still to this day. Men get treated more as losers then females also, if you are in your 30s-40s and single and can't get a girlfriend, people or your friends think theres something wrong with you, or think you are a loser. If you are in your 30s-40s living with your parents, you also will be labeled as a loser.  Now lets say a female is in her 30s-40s and single, not many people are going to think she's a loser.  Or living with her parents is a loser.  Then these men go online and see that internet sites are blaming them for everything just cause they are white. Society keeps poking and poking at them.  Its like catching a wild animal in a cage, and poking it over and over again, then it finally bites you, and you blame the animal for abusing it.  

Let's not get too off topic here.

The movements of some of these groups, no matter how marginalized, is not justified.  No terror action is ever justified in my book.  A terrorist is someone who has resorted to cowardice in the face of an obstacle.  Simple.

At any rate.  The only real Joker to me was the one in the last set of Batman movies before the last: Ledger.  I thought his performance was brilliant, and I have a hard time seeing anyone else in the role.  That being said - if the Penguin ever shows up again, it damn well better be Danny DeVito!  Nyuck nyuck nyuck.

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I don’t know enough about the Joker to say how he’s a reject of society, or whatever... I do know that the Batman The Dark Knight was really good/ scary. I just haven’t followed the franchise closely. Aside from that one I think the only good Batman was “Begins”

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7 hours ago, The History Kid said:

Let's not get too off topic here.

The movements of some of these groups, no matter how marginalized, is not justified.  No terror action is ever justified in my book.  A terrorist is someone who has resorted to cowardice in the face of an obstacle.  Simple.

At any rate.  The only real Joker to me was the one in the last set of Batman movies before the last: Ledger.  I thought his performance was brilliant, and I have a hard time seeing anyone else in the role.  That being said - if the Penguin ever shows up again, it damn well better be Danny DeVito!  Nyuck nyuck nyuck.

Loved DeVito as the Penguin! 😁 I used to go to a special effects makeup school right before college and ended up going with a class group to a Halloween themed convention that a lot of makeup artists came to. I got to meet Ve Neill and Danny DeVito and briefly talked with them about the Penguin's creation because it was fantastically ridiculous in the best way possible. 😆👍

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I am absolutely not going to see it, but that is only because I hate movie theaters and the obnoxious children that always seem to plague them regardless of the movie. I will probably be renting it at some point though, the Joker is one of my favorite villains~

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Don’t plan on seeing it in theater, but will almost certainly watch when it comes to one of the legit streaming services. As far as the whole social media controversy, I make a point of ignoring such things as much as possible (wasn’t even aware of it in this case until reading this thread)

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10 hours ago, Ohiotaku said:

Don’t plan on seeing it in theater, but will almost certainly watch when it comes to one of the legit streaming services. As far as the whole social media controversy, I make a point of ignoring such things as much as possible (wasn’t even aware of it in this case until reading this thread)

Its been all over every site, youtube has been making vids about it for like 2 months. The reviews are really good, seeing how its a dark R-rated movie, I doubt many kids will see it. Like when I went to the Dead Pool movies, not many kids were there. 

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I was going to go see it until I did hear all the talk about people shooting up theaters playing it. So no, I'm not going to go to the theater and see it now. Which is sad because I really wanted to go see it in theater I thought it would be a pretty good movie. 

I'm sure nothing will likely happen, and I doubt it will "turn anyone evil" unless they were already going down that route for a very long time. But I've had someone put a gun to my head and tell me they were going to kill me before, so, due to that incident, I have a really bad fear of things like that to the point I can't bring myself to go to this now with all the talk about some crazy person going off and shooting people ;/ 

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20 minutes ago, Sakura said:

 I was going to go see it until I did hear all the talk about people shooting up theaters playing it. So no, I'm not going to go to the theater and see it now. Which is sad because I really wanted to go see it in theater I thought it would be a pretty good movie. 

I'm sure nothing will likely happen, and I doubt it will "turn anyone evil" unless they were already going down that route for a very long time. But I've had someone put a gun to my head and tell me they were going to kill me before, so, due to that incident, I have a really bad fear of things like that to the point I can't bring myself to go to this now with all the talk about some crazy person going off and shooting people ;/ 

No one said they were, its the media trying to control people, and other people trying to control people to agree with them that you should like only what they like. Aka Captain Marvel.  Then again, this wouldn't be the 1st time the media lied about something. 

Edited by Serge heartless

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6 minutes ago, Serge heartless said:

No one said they were, its the media trying to control people, and other people trying to control people to agree with them that you should like only what they like. Aka Captain Marvel.  Then again, this wouldn't be the 1st time the media lied about something. 

All I've seen on TV so far has been the media talking about people going to shoot up the theater, and then that article about the military telling people not to go for that reason, that's what I meant, and why I won't go personally due to that incident I mentioned. 

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5 minutes ago, Serge heartless said:

No one said they were, its the media trying to control people, and other people trying to control people to agree with them that you should like only what they like. 

Actually...it isn't.  There was a very real and validated alarm that was raised over the issue.  I'm not at liberty to discuss it, but it actually warranted some FBI chatter.  

Aka Captain Marvel. 

You're saying this was a conspiracy theory from Marvel fans against D.C. comics.  Buddy, I've heard a lot of things in my time.  Just wow. 

Let's not turn this into a "media driving x, y, and z" debacle.  There was a threat - or is a threat - it is a valid threat.  A threat doesn't mean an action, and a lot of people will still see it, because this is their thing. 

 

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11 hours ago, The History Kid said:

Actually...it isn't.  There was a very real and validated alarm that was raised over the issue.  I'm not at liberty to discuss it, but it actually warranted some FBI chatter.  

 

 

You're saying this was a conspiracy theory from Marvel fans against D.C. comics.  Buddy, I've heard a lot of things in my time.  Just wow. 

Let's not turn this into a "media driving x, y, and z" debacle.  There was a threat - or is a threat - it is a valid threat.  A threat doesn't mean an action, and a lot of people will still see it, because this is their thing. 

 

Ive already explained what the real problem is, and its not the joker, its society. The movie is about how he became the joker. The movie is not about mass shootings. If people wanted to see movies about mass shootings they can just search for them online.  And if you have been watching anything about captain marvel reviews on rotten tomatoes were shut down, cause they were getting bad reviews. They didn't open the reviews again for a while. Now if you look at the bad reviews on rotten tomatoes some of these critics didn't even watch the joker movie. Why are they not getting shut down? Right cause they are hypocrites.   Theres also been ushers in captain marvel movies and only a few people have been in there, and some reason they were sold out. Now you can think whatever you want I really don't care. 

 

Though if you think Joker is trying to push some agenda, then you are just believing in the medias lies.  

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I was under the impression that the topic here was about the movie "Joker", and whether or not people were going to see it.  The point was brought up that there have been credible threats made on the audience by domestic terror organizations.  Many people are still going to see the movie.

I have absolutely no idea where anything that was just said has any small inkling of merit to the point of this topic.  We've heard the reviews, no one is disputing it.  We've heard the feedback, no one is disputing it.  What is being disputed is the fact that there's a credible threat and people are dismissing it.  The FBI does not put warnings out lightly.  Ever.  We can talk all day about effectiveness but that isn't the subject here.

So, this is my last warning - lets get back on the subject here: the subject is the movie "Joker" and whether or not people are going to see it.  And if they plan on it, what they look forward to, etc.

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Movies out tomorrow so im going to see it. Going to go to a early show before school is out, less kids to deal with the better. 

 

I saw the movie tonight, nothing happened at all, just other night at the movies. [Snip] The movie was really good. Though if you are looking for a action movie, this is not a action movie.  If you want to watch a action movie like this, you are better off watching Falling Down.  I was kind of confused about the ending, maybe I'll have to watch it again once it comes on video. 

{ Post edited to prevent further thread drift. - THK }

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Just finished watching the movie. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

I'm a huge fan of character-focused media, which is probably why I favored anime over western-media to begin with. Pieces like Joker and Land of the Lustrous set up stakes for the main characters, then absolutely take the dive across them, making the audience sit there and think "well crap, there's no going back now". I'm a little turned off by most Superhero films and shounen-type media where the main character has to grow stronger and defeat evil in order to save the world. I much prefer pieces character-driven media where the main character has their own stakes and concerns and lets the audience understand them rather than "ok, the main character is doing this because they're the chosen one".

Something else that is really interesting is watching characters go from good-hearted to evil. Not "I had to kill the bad guy"-evil, but genuine selfishness. This specific type of journey really highlights the relationship between person and society in a way that genuinely takes the audience out of their comfort zone.

Of course, I didn't think the movie was perfect. There were a few ends left untied, but I won't say anything because of spoilers. Another thing that kind of bothered me about the movie was that, at its core, this is a Batman spin-off. And while there are different Jokers, this one paints the main character as the original. Because of this, the relationship between this Joker and Batman is pretty critical, but there are some inconsistencies between this movie and what actually happens in the original Batman storyline.

For better or for worse, I can't say. The director of the movie also seemed pretty adamant on not doing sequels, which is a shame. I don't think that this movie needs a sequel, (the few loose ends I mentioned earlier weren't huge) but a sequel could flatten out some plot bumps. In the case that this movie does not get a sequel, I'm fine with leaving things to the imagination of the audience.

Well not, not all things, though. Avoid media about this movie at all costs. Not only do they paint a misinformed image of the movie, but they contain outright spoilers that are a huge part of the movie without any warning. I won't say anymore because I want to avoid getting political.

Overall, I had a great experience with this movie. I'm not sure who I would recommend it to, though.

 

Too long; didn't read:

 

 

Edited by Musuko
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I guess what throws me off the scent of this one too (and maybe this is true of the larger superhero movies, i.e. Spiderman, Batman, etc) is the sheer quantity of remakes and how the characters seem to be reinvented in each remake.  Seems to me, only just recently did the Joker take a staunchly dark and borderline psychotic turn.  I can concede to being wrong there (again...superhero movies are very much not my thing).  Is this being entered as the definitive backstory on the character Joker, or is it something that's going to get revised again?  

This move with the Joker does have me curious if they'll push out something for a Watchmen remake though.  Reading that one in undergrad for a class did catch my interest.

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31 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

Is this being entered as the definitive backstory on the character Joker, or is it something that's going to get revised again? 

No, this is purely its own thing. This is not meant to be an addition nor the start of a cinematic universe.

This Joker is extremely different than Suicide Squad Joker and even the main universe Joker, and will probably not be used again because the director does not plan on continuing this.

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Just now, Musuko said:

No, this is purely its own thing. This is not meant to be an addition nor the start of a cinematic universe.

This Joker is extremely different than Suicide Squad Joker and even the main universe Joker, and will probably not be used again because the director does not plan on continuing this.

Gotcha.  That's pretty clear.  I see the frustration with the no-sequel thing then.  That'd certainly bug me too.  If that's the case too, maybe I will take a peek at it when it drops on Bluray.

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2 hours ago, Musuko said:

because the director does not plan on continuing this

... unless it makes money.  That's just how hollyweird works.  They NEVER stop as long as there's positive cash-flow, just like a gambling junkie at a craps table.

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The movie doesn't really need a sequel. Like Bruce Campbell said, "not every movie needs a sequel."  Though they could do more DC movies like Joker showing DC villains origins. They could do one about lex luthor, or deathstroke.  I don't see Joker getting a sequel also cause they are already working on a new batman movie and I doubt joaquin phoenix or joker will be in it, for all we know they could add a new villain they haven't used before like Hush, or Victor Zsasz.

Edited by Serge heartless

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