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Timelessness in anime?


Cy~

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To me, the true test of a show is how well it holds up in ten or even thirty years. What about in a hundred years? What about in a thousand years? What about when aliens log into Crunchyroll while cruising around in space? Errr... You get what I mean?

 

Some shows age poorly. It can be due to terrible production values, terrible writing, overuse of tropes. However, some shows age well. For whatever reason, they never seem to get old. The stories they tell could easily move people (or space aliens), even in a thousand years.

 

I guess, if I had to name an example, I would say that I think Clannad: After Story is timeless. The story that the anime tells is built on family, an appreciation for the things that we overlook, how time changes things, and the substance of hope. None of those things will ever get old, and the production values were perfect for the story that they were telling.

 

What are your timeless classics?

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Three I always enjoy going back to no matter what are: Neon Genesis Evangelion, Texhnolyze, Planetes, and Azumanga Daioh. Wait that's four. I threw in Azumanga Daioh last second because I had forgotten, until recently, how much I love it.

 

However, I have no idea if they could be considered timeless, or if I'm just obsessed with them. Either way, for me they're timeless and I'll always go back to them.

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Are you an alien, @Cy~? Sorry, but your fascination with them discovering anime just leads to... questions. @_@

 

I don't think Clannad ~After Story~ is timeless by the way, even though I like it a lot. I think there are many slice-of-life anime that came later and did better what Clannad did. "Overuse of tropes" is what the first season of Clannad was known for, after all, and After Story is hardly an anime that rise above that.

 

If we are going to talk about anime teaching important life lessons that will never age, I'd say Mushishi and Kino's Journey would be far better (and criminally underrated) examples. I've already talked at length about them in the "Limitations of Anime" thread, but they are just so unique and unlike other anime that they will stand the test of time while others fade into "just another anime with moe and cute girls". Let's face it - Clannad is a glorified harem anime with a better "true end" than others.

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Clannad is a glorified harem anime with a better "true end" than others.

 

Disagree!

 

Clannad

 

There's never really any ambiguity in the anime on this for me. The guy has a lot of female friends, sure, and they're close to him, sure. However, it's very, very, very clear that Nagisa is the one. In fact, she's right there with him in most of the cases as he helps and supports others. It really doesn't feel like a harem at all, and that's Clannad, which was NOT what I referenced in my original post.

 

After Story

 

After Story is definitely not a harem. The guy gets married. He has a kid. It may contain tropes, but I think that they're overshadowed by the power of the story. What is the story? It's a story of loss, in a boring domestic setting. It's a story of degradation, the humiliation foisted upon us when we fall short of our childhood hopes and dreams. It's about the pain of grief, and it's also about the pain of hope.

 

 

 

A grown ass man loses his wife. He loses his child. Yes, I understand that deus ex machina is invoked to bring everything back together, and this really isn't to the liking of many. However, I think that it's important to give this anime credit for thoroughly deconstructing the concept of "family" and then putting it back together in a lovingly gentle fashion.

 

 

 

I don't think that there are a "lot" of slice-of-life anime that developed later than After Story and did the same thing better. I have looked for them and I really, really, really could not find any of them. I think that this is a true statement only if you ignore basically the entire familial component of the After Story (which was, literally, the bulk of it).

 

Now, come at me, Orius... You say that it isn't timeless and that other anime have done the same thing but better. You know what, I'll tell you what. I actually wouldn't mind if that was true. I loved After Story, so if you could point me at something that had the same family-based story that takes place with adults in an adult world, then I would be happy. You see, I want you to prove it. I challenge you! Come at me!

 

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Now, come at me, Orius... You say that it isn't timeless and that other anime have done the same thing but better. You know what, I'll tell you what. I actually wouldn't mind if that was true. I loved After Story, so if you could point me at something that had the same family-based story that takes place with adults in an adult world, then I would be happy. You see, I want you to prove it. I challenge you! Come at me!

Too lazy, don't care to argue about an anime I didn't even put in top favorites in the first place. I'll let you "win" this one if that's what you want. I really don't have any stakes in this. lol And to be honest, I haven't seen After Story for too long to remember the details anyway. What I said above (especially the part where I THINK there are anime that did the same thing as After Story) was really just a passing remark, not some serious declaration of fact, so don't need to take it so seriously.

 

So let's just agree to disagree that we don't treat Clannad with the same level of respect that I would put it on some sacred pedestal. I still don't think it's timeless (and I do think it's overrated) because you have to work through the filler-Clannad season one to get to After Story. That's very similar to what Muv-Luv did, make you work through a peaceful romance setting before taking it away by and replacing it with harsh reality, and I'm not even sure if Muv-Luv Alternative is worth that effort despite its reputation. So not only isn't Clannad original, for all I know, both Muv-Luv and Clannad have an equally unnecessary beginning. There are stories about families that don't have to sell moe fanservice on television to tell you about those important family themes in the first place.

 

Also, that Deus ex Machina IS a big factor in deciding whether it's timeless or not. It's not a complete story if you just ignore the poorly-executed ending. I hate Deus ex Machina; it's contrived and takes away from the realism that it tried so hard to build up on throughout the entire second season. We can't solve family issues with magical orbs and time-travel! Hello! If I just need one reason why it isn't timeless, it's because of that terrible a**-pull at the end.

 

A bad beginning and an even worse ending with an acceptable middle don't make a good story, let alone timeless. I would even admit that the Toy Story trilogy isn't timeless for the same reason - an "okay" beginning that didn't go anywhere, the first Toy Story movie that's a glorified buddy-cop comedy (usually consisting of two guys that don't get along with each other before doing so at the end).

 

Finally, I said Clannad was a harem because Clannad the source material was a harem. It's a harem in its roots. Yes, it's a much better adapted harem, but that doesn't change the fact that spiritually, Clannad was meant to be a harem, thus I said "glorified" harem. It might have subverted harem tropes in its adaptation, but that doesn't change what it was created for in the first place, and what Key's visual novels are known for (creating harems). In fact, Key used to create h-games before they went onto create nakige (VNs that make you cry). But at the end of the day, this is really treading the semantics territory, and unlike you, I really don't like to argue about this kind of thing. It's a waste of time, and we'll never get anywhere.

 

And this is the part where you'll probably come up with a lengthy response that I'll have to rebuke somehow to prove that I'm right. This is what I've been trying to avoid being dragged into (and failed), but whatever. Feel free to respond, but I can't promise I'll do the same. I don't want to talk about Clannad. I hate talking about shows that I don't really love. It's a pain in the butt (I said I liked Clannad, not love it; and I really should've used a past tense just now when I said that since I don't really like it that much anymore). So if you want to keep talking about it... be my guest.

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I'll let you "win" this one if that's what you want.

 

That isn't what I wanted. I'm honestly interested in other shows that have similar stories, and I was just playing around in my response.

 

I have a shit ton of respect for you and your views, and I was actually really interested in what you had to say. An argument wasn't really what I had in mind, I was just playing around. @_@

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I have a s*** ton of respect for you and your views, and I was actually really interested in what you had to say. An argument wasn't really what I had in mind, I was just playing around. @_@

Yeah, I know, but whether you intended to or not, what it would have eventually turned out to be would be an argument of conflicting opinions. Yes, it would be a "peaceful argument" where we share our different views civilly, but an argument nonetheless where I have to put in so much effort into defending my point of view, and that's just something I'm really not in the mood for right now (That huge chunk of text I wrote above? Didn't put any effort into it; just came off the top of my head).

 

To sum up how I feel on this matter... let's see, a light-hearted video clip:

 

 

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Cowboy Bebop and Lupin the III are two examples I can think of off the top of my head. The action, the comedy, the characters, they all translate well, even into the modern age because of characters like Faye and Fujiko being able to hold their own in a group of the strongest men in their universes.

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A couple of series I really like are Yoroiden Samurai Troopers and Lupin III (1971 version)...but neither are timeless as they definitely reflect the times they were made in, especially the latter. It just screams late 60s/early 70s. To me, it's like comparing the 1960s run of the Jetsons with its 1980s run. As a kid, I definitely preferred the latter as the former felt slightly sexist to me...especially that STUPIDITY over how bad women drivers were.

 

Hm, maybe a good example of a "timeless classic" is something like Sazae-san. You can pick it up anyplace, and it doesn't feel too dated despite its being on since 1969. The writers/animators purposely keep it that way too, I heard. It's not boggled down by a lot of pop cultural references or a lot of super high technological gadgets. The stories are also nice and simplistic and good for the whole family.

 

I guess another I'd pick is maybe Cowboy Bebop. It's set in the future, but it isn't too farfetched either. It had nice characters, stories, action in some eps, etc.

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Sword art online! HAHAHHAAHA. kidding.

 

Cowboy Bebop for sure. I think this Anime will be relevant throughout the existence of the human race, because of the philosophical issues it faces and the basic issue of facing your past. Everyone has a past. The music is directly intertwined with the theme and the characters are simple enough to be relevant in any era beyond the 1990s.

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Sword art online! HAHAHHAAHA. kidding.

 

Nice one! You actually had me going there, hahaha. I read SAO and I just stopped there to process, hahaah.

 

Neon Genesis Evangelion

 

I actually left this one off my list, because I don't particularly like it. With that said, there are some really heavy themes in Evangelion and lots of amusingly interpretative religious allegory. It's actually a really captivating example of the human experience, and it has mecha. This is good. :D

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