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On 1/23/2020 at 7:17 AM, Illusion of Terra said:

I think the PS5 seems quite decent, especially because of the backwards compatibility. I wonder how many more console generations there will be, however. I'd expect them to run the games from a server in the future and just stream them. Maybe I'm just oversimplifying things though and games in the future will be too big to be streamed in any way.


 

 I’d like to like consoles but they’re just too locked down.  If they ever make a console that accepts mods, I’m there.  Until then I’ll stick with my PC.

 

As for streaming, I see 2 problems there.  First is bandwidth.  How does a FPS in HD work over my ~7mb/s DSL at anything like acceptable frame rates and latency?  It probably doesn’t.

2nd is kind of the same problem that I have with existing consoles.. lock-in, which leads to expensive content, user-farming (loot boxes, etc), and less value for your money.  Apps that I don’t physically take possession of and that require an expensive console that can turn into a useless brick at any time some company decides they’re not making enough profit are basically a non-starter With me, especially if it takes “my” entire software library with it.  At least with existing consoles I can generally continue to run in single-player mode from the cart/disc until the hardware itself breaks.

 

To be sure there is interesting possibilities inherent in the streaming console idea.  Multi-player games are hard to do if there is much physics interaction between players and it all has to be coordinated individually, without recourse to a server.  If the whole “physics” environment is simulated in the servers’ local memory and just control inputs and visual/audible results streamed from/to a remote console someplace then that limits the required bandwidth and compute power for massively multiplayer games even as it opens up new gaming possibilities on the development side.

I'm interested to see where consoles go from here.  At the same time I’m in no rush to be in the bleeding edge.  

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19 hours ago, efaardvark said:

As for streaming, I see 2 problems there.  First is bandwidth.  How does a FPS in HD work over my ~7mb/s DSL at anything like acceptable frame rates and latency?  It probably doesn’t.

I think they are expecting people to have at least 10 fold that in the future though, especially since most people won't be at AT&T 😂 But yeah still, latency could be quite an issue.

I am not saying I would want them to make everything online/stream it all, among other things precisely because of all the bs loot boxes, in-game purchases etc. that are polluting games nowadays. But I think it could be quite profitable for companies if you need to be subscribed at all times to even play the games.

Technically you can mod anything if you were to 'hack' your console, but at that point you i) could get a decent PC instead and ii) are often barred from any of the online services. Generally, PCs are much more versatile when it comes to modding or anything of the like of course, but maybe not for your average-Joe-user. Generally I really enjoy consoles, or at least I did for anything that was offline-gaming without the tons of ads, extra purchases etc, and mostly related to Nintendo. But since you can get a decent gamepad connected to your pc, the content of which can be streamed to your TV, nowadays your PC can more or less act as a console just as well.

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What people are going to start encountering more and more is the limit and finite-ness of streaming.  It's very hard and difficult to beat the capabilities of physical solid-form media.  The cost of infrastructure upgrades notwithstanding, the cost to maintain a constant and steady flow of bandwidth across the board is already difficult in lower tier markets.  Have you looked at what a BD's transfer rate is lately?  It's over 12 GBPs.  A few go upwards of 18.  Couple that with data caps, and no one can convince me we are anywhere close to having a sustainable stream-only platform in a mainstream service.

 

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2 hours ago, Illusion of Terra said:

I think they are expecting people to have at least 10 fold that in the future though, especially since most people won't be at AT&T 😂 But yeah still, latency could be quite an issue.

That’s right, rub it in!  😭   ( ;) )

Speaking of which, the latest in the fiber install saga is that AT&T missed yet another appointment!!  💢 That’s 4 for 4!  I got ahold of their loyalty number and went in yelling.  I was aiming for the CEOs desk this time.  (Of course he wasn’t available.  Probably out golfing with Trump.  :veryangry: )  I did get a half-off deal on our service for a year however, including our two phone lines.  Of course, that isn’t worth jack if they never actually get around to installing it. 🤣 😭 BBB and FCC have also already been notified, though in the latter case that agency has already been Trumpified as well so that’s probably a wasted effort.  Making America Grate Again!

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sad though ps5 won't have backwards compatibility with ps3,2 one 1 would have been nice to play the old games without having to download them 😂 

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4 minutes ago, Lelouch said:

sad though ps5 won't have backwards compatibility with ps3,2 one 1 would have been nice to play the old games without having to download them 😂 

I just wish they were more open about the fact that this is a sofrware issue.  When I worked for the game store, a whole bunch of our guys were saying it was due to hardware limitations, and so were the customers - and that's just simply not true.  It's irritating.

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10 minutes ago, Lelouch said:

sad though ps5 won't have backwards compatibility with ps3,2 one 1 would have been nice to play the old games without having to download them 😂 

man, that would have been one heck of a console then! I mean you can probably hack and emulate/run them, but still a native support would have been great.

@efaardvark half off is not bad at all, although, if I remember my maths, 0 divided by 2 is still 0 😂 
 

  

4 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

were saying it was due to hardware limitations

I would also doubt that. What hardware limitation would there be that would make a ps5 not run a ps1 game for example? If it can run ps4 games, surely it can run ps1 games. the disc drive should also be able to read them since they used simple cds and blu rays as far as I remember.

Edited by Illusion of Terra

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56 minutes ago, Illusion of Terra said:

I would also doubt that. What hardware limitation would there be that would make a ps5 not run a ps1 game for example? If it can run ps4 games, surely it can run ps1 games. the disc drive should also be able to read them since they used simple cds and blu rays as far as I remember.

A disc drive is a disc drive for the most part.  I have a BDP and a CDP in my rack.  Both use lasers, both have optical lenses, both have DAC's, and both have preset output modules.  The only difference is one has fewer components in it outside of the disc drive (the CDP) and doesn't have a video section (the CDP again).

You can have better quality components, sure.  But a laser is a laser.  It will read whatever you put in front of it.  It's up to the software or firmware to translate it.  I remember once upon a time GameStop employees were telling people "CD's damage the BD laser" - which is absolute bunk.

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3 hours ago, The History Kid said:

But a laser is a laser.  It will read whatever you put in front of it.

Kind of.  There's a physics limit as well.  Shorter-wavelength (bluer) light can focus to a tighter/smaller spot than longer-wavelength (red or infra-red), so they can get more bit density with bluer BD tech than the "redder" wavelengths used on DVDs and CDs.  The tracking technology has improved a bit over the years as well.  Again, older CDs are the worst, so they can't read the closer-packed lines of spots on a DVD disc, and DVD drives can't read BR discs.  Bottom line is that Blu-ray technology can read CDs and DVDs, but the longer-wavelength lasers and less-accurate servos in DVD and CD drives simply can't read or track the lines of smaller spots on BR discs.

That said, it is fundamentally correct that there's no hardware reason a new PS5 couldn't be compatible with older PSs.  Assuming they include an optical drive at all then it would have to be blu-ray compatible these days, and if they have that then they'd get CD- and DVD-compatibility for free.  Same deal with CPU and GPU and memory.  Modern hardware can easily handle legacy titles at the same or better performance and cheaper cost.  Probably not even (much of) a software issue either.

And yes, gamestop is full of crap.  :D

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9 hours ago, efaardvark said:

Kind of.  There's a physics limit as well.

The microscope people have fancy ways of trying to overcome that (multi-photon stuff etc), although I don't think they would use it on discs. Speaking of which, I wonder if they could ever make 'electron/ion beam discs' which could hold magnitudes more data. Just thinking out loud here 😂

Anyway, I think they'll probably software-lock the compatibility. You can certainly overcome that, but I guess they would implement some kind of recognition system so that you'd be barred from accessing online content.

Edited by Illusion of Terra

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Sony has been working on discs called "prism" for a few years now. They're supposed to hold up to 5 PB of data each by utilizing multiple physical layers. I haven't read much more into it but that would likely require some form of hardware change.

@efaardvark - that was kind of my point. For our general practice and discussion here, a spade is a spade.

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we'll see what the new console has in store when they reveal the system and the controller 

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Came across the trailer for 198X and I'm hyped to start playing this!

You can find out more about the team and idea behind the game. >> https://198xthegame.com/

 

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Looks like a new minecraft snapshot for 1.16 just dropped.  New nether biomes!  And netherite.. better than diamonds for tools and armor, and it floats on lava!  The bad news is that it is extremely rare, and only found under lava in the nether.

https://youtu.be/jxLytC1nAIo

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On 2/1/2020 at 6:12 AM, IIVIsouljam said:

Came across the trailer for 198X and I'm hyped to start playing this!

You can find out more about the team and idea behind the game. >> https://198xthegame.com/

 

This looks cool and sound like it will have a good story.

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Back in the dim dark Age Before the 'Net there was a program called "Adventure Construction Set" that let you build your own games.  It was pretty simple but it let absolute know-nothing game developers (aka 12yo me) develop games for the Apple ][.  My brothers and I had a lot of fun with it at the time.  I'm looking for something similar for a relative's kid who is about that age and has shown an interest in game development.  I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for game development tools for complete noobs.. as in no programming or artistic skills to speak of.  I want something with basically no learning curve to start, but I would like some optional depth, should they want to delve a bit more deeply into the details once they get into it.  The Idea is to encourage early success, even if it means running into game-engine limits relatively soon.  Ideally it should be easy to add content like tilesets or custom scripting/programming if that's the direction they want to go in.  Eventually, inevitably limits will be reached, and I have no aversion to having to switch to "real" game creation tools at that point, but the initial introduction should be as painless as possible.

So far the most promising software I've discovered this afternoon looks to be RPG Maker MV (youtube review).  Does anyone have any experience with this?  Anything else out there that might work?

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16 hours ago, efaardvark said:

So far the most promising software I've discovered this afternoon looks to be RPG Maker MV (youtube review).  Does anyone have any experience with this?  Anything else out there that might work?

Yeah, I've known and used different versions of the program since the 2000 version (@Keiko  might also have an opinion on it if she wants to contribute). It pretty much fits what you were asking for, as you can add your own tilesets etc, but there are tons you can freely download online if you are not into the whole pixel art stuff. I don't remember the limitations of the MV though (i.e. if you can create 9999 or 99999 or 999999 events etc.). So I don't know if that kid plans on creating a 100+ hour game or not, but that would be something to look out for.
Personally, I prefer the versions before MV, but that is a matter of preference and what you are used to. I think MV uses javascript (while older versions used Ruby) and has some other advantages over the older ones (such as, if I remember correctly, randomly generated dungeons and character sprites, easily being ported to other OS). The programming feature is entirely optional and quite easy to add (simply press the button for it and start coding), and it can also be used in addition to the non-programming things (i.e. you can download a script programmed by someone for a specific purpose such as, let's say additional water reflections).

You can pretty much do anything 2D with it without knowing any programming as such. Technically you could also create 3D games but I would not recommend. Generally speaking, I think it is quite versatile if you are creative. It gets you the basics of how games work (from the old ones on NES to current ones such as most recent ones on PS4 etc), i.e. you get to understand how things are triggered by what etc. If the kid picks up javascript they could modify even more. Another advantage of it is that there are quite a lot of tutorials and freely available games which you can 'reverse engineer' if you will (and there at least used to be an active community for it, haven't really checked nowadays).
So yeah, it is a great program, with which anyone could create a game, but the end result will depend on the person's skill.

 

Something a bit more 'modern' might be 'Dreams'. This seems a bit more 'advanced' in a way but from what I know it is only available on PS4. I heard of this because of a guy who is creating an avatar game with it, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2j48hm8b2ityC39SqhDKQg

Edited by Illusion of Terra
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Well if I needed more reasons not to purchase Persona 5 Royale, I got them...we're apparently cutting out more content because it might make some people angry.

https://www.vg247.com/2020/02/17/persona-5/

"Video game violence isn't the problem, but video game words are problems."  I swear...

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3 hours ago, Illusion of Terra said:

Yeah, I've known and used different versions of the program since the 2000 version (@Keiko  might also have an opinion on it if she wants to contribute). It pretty much fits what you were asking for, as you can add your own tilesets etc, but there are tons you can freely download online if you are not into the whole pixel art stuff. I don't remember the limitations of the MV though (i.e. if you can create 9999 or 99999 or 999999 events etc.). So I don't know if that kid plans on creating a 100+ hour game or not, but that would be something to look out for.
Personally, I prefer the versions before MV, but that is a matter of preference and what you are used to.

...

Something a bit more 'modern' might be 'Dreams'. This seems a bit more 'advanced' in a way but from what I know it is only available on PS4. I heard of this because of a guy who is creating an avatar game with it, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2j48hm8b2ityC39SqhDKQg

For me MV has the added attraction of having a linux version.  That means I can test or otherwise provide support on/from my own system.

I'll check out "Dreams" too.  Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, The History Kid said:

Well if I needed more reasons not to purchase Persona 5 Royale, I got them...we're apparently cutting out more content because it might make some people angry.

https://www.vg247.com/2020/02/17/persona-5/

"Video game violence isn't the problem, but video game words are problems."  I swear...

Bland is boring.  Whatever happened to tolerance?  There's a point at which tolerance crosses a line into enabling bad behavior, but lack of any tolerance is clearly a Bad Thing as well.  I tend to avoid productions of big corporate entities in favor of smaller places because the big guys are so risk-averse that it makes their content ridiculously distorted. 

This is also a problem with sex vs violence as well.  For some reason violence is ok, but sex is not?  All else being equal, I'd much rater see sex than violence.  I mean, not that all-sex is any more interesting than all-violence in my mind, but people seem to tolerate bullets and bombs in prime-time yet even a little nudity and the same people go nuts.  (No pun intended.)

 

 

Also, speaking of removing content, it seems like GeForce Now and Blizzard aren't getting along.  Already!  Probably not a good sign for Google's Stadia...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/activision-blizzard-games-taken-down-from-nvidia-geforce-now/

Stuff like this is why I still buy content that I like.  Too easy for stuff to disappear from the mothership when you're not expecting it.  (Not that I'd ever buy a Blizzard title in the first place of course.)

 

Edited by efaardvark
typoo

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What are your thoughts on the ps4 back button attachment? 

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16 hours ago, Lelouch said:

What are your thoughts on the ps4 back button attachment? 

Personally I would have no use for it, as there is enough buttons already and it makes the controller more clunky, but I can see it being useful for some.

 

As for the gaming censoring debate, I think the whole nudity things seems to be much more of a thing in the US than in Europe. That's not to say that you can see r-rated stuff on a kid's show here, but usually there isn't much of an uproar here if there are exposed breasts or the likes on prime time TV. If you have a look at some of the European productions they can be full of stuff like that. Only reason I can think of might be because the religious influence is stronger in the US compared to Europe, but that's just a guess.
Personally I do not really need to see either violence or nudity if it is misplaced. If you are making a war movie, then I would expect some violence of course, but if you put some explosions into a movie with an otherwise unrelated topic, I don't see the point of it.
As for censoring so that it fits any social agenda, my point is simply that it depends on what you portray in what way. I would not have anything against a movie with a racist character who wants to kill all blacks/whites/chinese/jews/immigrants etc. so long as it is not some kind of propaganda where the whole point of the movie is to show that this is what is needed to 'cleanse the world' or anything insane like that. In the same vein I wouldn't want a movie celebrating child rapists for their deeds etc, but this does not mean that I would be against putting a character like that into a movie (given that people like this exist) for example as a criminal.

Edited by Illusion of Terra

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While looking for unrelated information about my computer's motherboard I found a reference to the memory that I'm using.  Apparently the batch that I'm using is good for more than the stated rating, and the post contained BIOS settings to get a ~10% performance boost.  The settings seemed reasonable and my system AIO cooler gives me quite a bit of heating headroom so I gave it a try.  No heat or reliability problems so far, and some quick geekbench tests did show an 8-10% overall bump in memory-related benchmarks.  If I use my imagination I might even be able to see an extra few FPS while playing KSP.  Not exactly earth-shaking, but I'll take it.  Especially for the price.

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