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I'm coming up on 2 years (in October) with my Prius Prime plug-in.  Been great so far.  The only issue with it at the moment is it desperately needs a bath.  :) 

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1 hour ago, efaardvark said:

I'm coming up on 2 years (in October) with my Prius Prime plug-in.  Been great so far.  The only issue with it at the moment is it desperately needs a bath.  :) 

I would love to invest in an electric or hybrid vehicle when charging stations are installed in my region! 🤩 Everyone seems to have great experiences with them. 

My Edge (which I bought last October after @The History Kid talked me into it, shout out to him) also needs a bath. My driveway is under a tree and it gets frequently targeted by birdie-butts.

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1 hour ago, Wedgy said:

I would love to invest in an electric or hybrid vehicle when charging stations are installed in my region! 🤩 Everyone seems to have great experiences with them. 

My Edge (which I bought last October after @The History Kid talked me into it, shout out to him) also needs a bath. My driveway is under a tree and it gets frequently targeted by birdie-butts.

From an engineer's pov I really liked the idea of an electric motor in my car.  Electric motors are far and away the better option compared to ICEs.  Fewer moving parts, higher power per weight, flat torque curve, electric cables instead of fuel lines, better responsiveness, much, much simpler (sometimes no) transmission, etc., etc.  They're quiet, no tailpipe emissions, etc.  What's not to like?

At the same time I was a bit skeptical of the EV hype because of the battery situation.  Batteries are definitely the weak link in EV engineering.  With that in mind the first thing I did was install a charger at home on my driveway.  (Really just a NEMA 14-30 socket, like for clothes dryers, in an outdoor enclosure.  Only I use it as the place to plug in my car's charger instead of for drying clothes.)  Besides the convenience factor of essentially having my own gas pump at home, that makes any battery-related concerns I had a non-issue.  My car's itty-bitty (8kWh) battery is only good for about 30 miles EV range but even that's usually plenty since I always start the commute with a full charge every morning.  Every once in a while if I forget to plug it in or I have to run some extra errands on the way home or something then I run out of juice and the ICE kicks in for the last couple miles, but that's rare enough that I hardly use any gas overall.  Including a road trip to Los Vegas and back about 6 months after I got the car I think I'm only on my 4th tank of gas coming up on 2 years here.  The rest has been all electrons.  It is almost a waste to be hauling around all those heavy ICE parts all the time.

My next car will be a full EV, no question.  Without the ICE-related bits of the gizmo I'm sure the performance would be even better and by then range anxiety due to batteries should be ancient history.  I take pretty good care of my cars anyway so by the time I'm ready to buy again we'll probably be getting over 500 miles on a single charge and have batteries that will charge completely in less than an hour.  If I need more than that then I'm doing something very wrong.  :)

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I do not believe EV's are anywhere close to feasible for everyday vehicles just yet.  HEV's on the other hand are the way to go right now.  They have added reassurance of being able to handle fuel if need be, generally can travel farther distances, and most eliminate the need for plug-in electrical consumption (which is arguably just as eco-negative as gas is, but more expensive).  For me, I believe I'm a generation or two away from full EV.  My Hybrid gets 700 miles to a gallon, coupled with it's EV component, and it recharges simply by breaking or mid-drive.

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19 minutes ago, The History Kid said:

I do not believe EV's are anywhere close to feasible for everyday vehicles just yet.  HEV's on the other hand are the way to go right now.  They have added reassurance of being able to handle fuel if need be, generally can travel farther distances, and most eliminate the need for plug-in electrical consumption (which is arguably just as eco-negative as gas is, but more expensive).  For me, I believe I'm a generation or two away from full EV.  My Hybrid gets 700 miles to a gallon, coupled with it's EV component, and it recharges simply by breaking or mid-drive.

Agreed, I see it as a step in the right direction. From where we are now, going straight to full electric would be too far of a stretch for most people. There's not enough will to make that leap. HEV as you say is a more incremental middle ground and certainly more realistic if we are speaking short-term. Long-term, who knows? More research can develop substantially more efficient energy, and as efaardvark pointed out what we have today will look like stone age technology compared to what may emerge in the future. It's all an exciting concept to me.

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8 hours ago, Argas said:

Only thing I drive right now is myself crazy.

....ok bad joke please don't hurt me lol

*(( High-fives ))* I got you, that was funny. 

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10 hours ago, The History Kid said:

I do not believe EV's are anywhere close to feasible for everyday vehicles just yet.  HEV's on the other hand are the way to go right now.  They have added reassurance of being able to handle fuel if need be, generally can travel farther distances, and most eliminate the need for plug-in electrical consumption (which is arguably just as eco-negative as gas is, but more expensive).  For me, I believe I'm a generation or two away from full EV.  My Hybrid gets 700 miles to a gallon, coupled with it's EV component, and it recharges simply by breaking or mid-drive.

I agree to the extent that power delivery and storage definitely needs work.  As I said, batteries are clearly the weak link.  At the moment it simply can't compete with fuel for energy transfer and storage.  20 gallons of diesel represents about 814kWhrs of energy.  Over the 5 minutes it takes to pump into your tank that's equivalent to about a 10 mega-watt transfer over an electrical line.  For comparison, even a Tesla Supercharger is only good for about 250 kW transfers.  EVs don't need nearly so much power in the first place because electric motors are a lot more efficient at transferring battery power to forward motion, but even so that's a LOT of electrical power.  Even if we had batteries that could handle that sort of transfer (and we might in the next year or 2) the residential infrastructure in a lot of places isn't up to it.  Most residential service is limited to 100A by the mains breakers, which is around 15kW if we're talking "120V" service or 30kW for 240V service.  Some older homes max out at 60A, or less than 10kW.  There's ways to work the problem(s), but it is definitely going to require some changes.  The flexibility of fuel transfers and ubiquity of the support infrastructure available for ICE vehicles is a big benefit logistics-wise too.  You can quickly top off your tank pretty much anywhere, and even if you run out of gas then you can call for a refill.  Can't do that with an EV.  There is no "gas can" for electrons, and you can't use an extension cord.

That said, EVs do make a lot of sense in certain applications.  Commuter vehicles for example, or any vehicles where the distance and time are deterministic enough to give good confidence in the battery capacity is a good use-case.  If we're talking residential use then allowing for slower power transfers that are easier for the electrical infrastructure to handle is also generally required.  If we're talking commercial use then having a logistic center of some sort that can handle the heavy power draw of recharging a fleet of EVs would be good, hopefully with dedicated local power generation to minimize transmission losses as well.  If someone only uses their car for commuting ~100 miles r/t to work every day and for occasional grocery runs then current EVs are 100% feasible, and will likely even save money in TCO terms.  I would not be a bit surprised if long-haul trucking gets converted en-mass in the next 5 years or so either.  Already local deliveries are converting.  Or have converted.. my local mail carrier has been using an electric delivery vehicle for several years now.  Amazon even specifically commissioned a fleet of 100,000 all-electric vehicles from Rivian for "last-mile" delivery purposes, starting next year.  Where EVs still don't make much sense is when you get beyond these sorts of specific use cases.

Note that I also agree that you would still probably want a second, ICE- or hybrid-vehicle for things like my 270 mile LA->Vegas run or weekend-warrior outings however.  I did see more than a few Teslas on the road with me on that trip but that would definitely be outside of my personal comfort zone, even though they do have Superchargers at the halfway point in Baker now.  I don't expect to see things like battery-powered tanks any time soon either.

I do not agree that plugging in is in any way inherently eco-negative.  It will take some infrastructure changes (and therefore expense) to enable, but generating and transporting electrons is clearly a lot more eco-friendly than digging up and transporting fuel for transportation even if you generate the power with coal, just because you can make a few stationary coal plants a lot more efficient than millions of mobile ICEs.  (Even accounting for transmission losses.)  Also no chance of spillage-related environmental damage when transporting the electrons over a wire vs oil in a pipeline or ship.  If we use nuclear* or some sort of carbon-neutral "renewable" source like wind or solar then so much the better. 

Here in sunny SoCal solar is a clear economic win too.  Even with the CV19 restrictions limiting demand gasoline is still over $3/gallon from the station down the hill from me, and my marginal electrical rate from SoCal Edison is as high as $0.42/kwh.  The existing panels on my roof have already more than paid for themselves and now with my pluggable car I'm even looking to expand my generating capacity.  Sometimes I think that SCE is trying to put themselves out of business with their ridiculously high rates.  Who is going to pay $0.42/kwh when they can put up their own for less than half that?

(*But get rid of all the aging solid-fuel, water-cooled existing reactors.  My vote would be for going all-in on molten-salt fission reactors using U233 like they did in the 50s and 60s, though updated for the newer materials and generation technology available today and using a cycle that generates the U from thorium in a breeder.  I'm fine with fusion too of course, if/when it ever gets here.  I'm not holding my breath on that however, and we need the power today.)

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