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Anime Communities, and Becoming a Youtuber

Musuko

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Well, if you read that title and are expecting this blogpost to be a guide on how to become a successful Youtuber...

 

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Sorry, but no.

Note: this entry is rambling and my personal experience/opinion.

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You know, for a big part of my life, I've wanted to have a community. I've tried a lot of different things, like reddit, 4chan, discord, etc.

A lot of them don't really sit right with me.

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Let's start off with reddit. For the most part, the reddit website is fine, but I have lots of issues with the r/anime subreddit. Here are some of my issues with it:

  • The same things are said over and over again.
    • This is possibly due to the seasonal format recycling the same ideas.
    • This is really bothersome for me because no new "ideas" are being thought of.
  • There's too much Fanart.
    • Fanart isn't necessarily bad, but if I wanted to see fanart of a show, I would subscribe to that show's subreddit.
    • Most comments in a fanart post have nothing new to say. There's no discussion at all.
  • The same joke or a variation of it is always top comment, rather than the comments that have something interesting to say.
    • This is due to the "early bird gets the worm" system that reddit has when it comes to its voting system.
    • Instead encouraging thinking, the reddit system encourages taking a trending joke and fitting it into the scenario.
    • Because a comment was posted earlier, it has been seen for a longer time; therefore, that comment will get upvoted.
    • Comments that are not top comments get buried in an avalanche of redditors rushing to get their karma.
  • The upvote/downvote system is stupid.
    • Many times, I get downvoted for doing nothing wrong.
    • Conversely, people who say stupid/obvious things get upvoted.
    • In other subreddits, downvoting should only be used to show that something is off-topic, offensive, or rulebreaking, but r/anime uses it as a disagree button
    • I post many things that are on-topic, yet still get downvoted for no apparent reason.
    • This is super frustrating because I can never find out why I got downvoted. It just happens.
  • It feels too impersonal.
    • On my time on AF, I feel like I've already gotten to know some of you guys despite being here for less than a month.
    • From using reddit over years, I have not felt the same.
    • I feel like no one knows who I am, and no one knows who each other are.
    • The only way people know people is through other websites. (For instance, Youtubers or Twitter users, etc.)
  • I explained to someone why I don't like getting spoiled.
    • I was downvoted, and then someone replied to me saying "spoilers don't ruin a show".
    • The person who replied to me got upvoted.
    • Both the person and the people who downvoted me failed to see that I was explaining why you shouldn't spoil things for other people.
    • Instead of trying to understand me, they downvote me anonymously.
  • Some other points that may or may not be true anymore:
    • Mods are power-hungry, corrupt, and hard to work with
    • Rules don't make sense or are unintuitive
    • Posts get taken down for no good reason
  • And most importantly, the biggest problem of all...
  • The community is way too passive aggressive. They dance around what they're saying in a sarcastic manner, which is really frustrating.

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Boy, that list was longer than I expected.

I still love reddit, but it's definitely time for me to part ways with r/anime. I've had very few problems with other subreddits, like r/manga or r/animemes. This may be because more specific subreddits have a focus. For instance, fanart isn't banned on r/manga, but it's taboo to spam fanart there because the subreddit is, in essence, a manga-focused subreddit. The r/anime subreddit, however, will just hoard whatever anime-related content it sees while hypocritically banning topics that "aren't anime".

MrAnimeFan and others have had this issue before, and it's really confusing.

Next up is 4chan's /a/. I've pretty much only lurked there, but the vibes are definitely not for me. Essentially:

  • Way too many untagged spoilers
  • Constant aggressiveness
  • Refusal to understand other viewpoints, even when proven wrong
  • Impersonality/lack of "community"

It's still way better than r/anime, though. The discussions on /a/ are way more "intelligent" than r/anime, there isn't a stupid voting system, and their general taste in anime is much better than r/anime's.

That last point is entirely subjective, but I still stand by it. I probably feel this way because many of my thoughts about an anime are never even mentioned on r/anime, (or they are downvoted when brought up) but are explained in detail on /a/ in a precise way that just clicks with me. The biggest example I can think of off of the top of my head is My Hero Academia. Everyone and their grandmother loves this show, but there were so many things that bothered my enjoyment of the show that're just overlooked on r/anime. On the other hand, /a/ will gladly call out anything they have an issue with.

The biggest difference between reddit and 4chan is that redditors try to conform to what other redditors are thinking to farm upvotes. However, 4chan users mostly don't care about what other 4chan users are thinking and will jump at the opportunity to directly insult them.

So what's better, Kinbaryu: a redundant website that stays inside its own thought bubble, or a volatile website that claws at itself to prove a point?

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I don't want to partake in either, yet I still do. I love anime, and I love talking to other people about anime. For every 3-4 painful threads on /a/ or r/anime, there's always a good thread where the replies are interesting to read. I love reading what people have to say about an anime, and how it inspires them to draw or write or change their life. These threads make me appreciate a show in entirely new ways I couldn't have imagined on my own.

It's fascinating.

Maybe these websites aren't for me, then. I'm okay with that. So, I turned to discord. Afterall, you could talk to anyone in the server, and there's a name and profile picture that lets you identify who someone is. But in regards to anime-based servers, here's why I don't like them:

  • Many servers are dead.
    • Anime-based servers are typically quiet.
    • General servers that have a channel for anime discussion are even more quiet.
  • Some servers that aren't dead are way too chaotic.
    • I can't tell who's who, and I can't tell what's going on.
    • There's no sense of connection, meaning it's hard to get your foot in the door on these servers.
  • There's always drama.
    • I don't care.
    • I want to talk about anime.
  • A lot of servers don't even talk about anime.
    • Over ~15 anime-related servers I had joined, only two have consistently talked about anime.
    • In a lot of them, here's the most they would talk about anime:
      • "Oh hey, I like My Hero Academia."
      • "Oh really! Me too! My favorite hero is [Hero], who's yours?"
      • "[Hero]"
    • There's nothing interesting being said here. They don't explain why they like the hero, or what they think about the show.
    • This is probably a huge factor in why I have a resentment against My Hero Academia.

Eventually, I was led to more things, like Instagram, Twitter, Youtube, and AnimeForums. So far, I'm not having a bad time here, honestly.

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I do lurk too much, though. I should definitely try to be more active, like @Kaga Koko.

But really, I actually feel welcome here, especially compared to r/anime, /a/, or discord servers. There's even high-level discussion, with @Ryan Dave Jimenez explaining the parallels between Harry Potter and My Hero Academia in my last blog post, with @Wedgy responding to that comparison. Most importantly, neither of them are attacking each other for having a different opinion/interpretation of the series, and neither of them are being passive-aggressive to one another. Ryan didn't take it as a personal attack when Wedgy responded to his interpretation because he understands that it's an interpretation. 

This is probably because the two of them are mature adults that know how to present their viewpoints without feeling like they need to attack the other person for thinking differently. That's all I've ever wanted, to be honest.

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Does this dude ever stop talking...?

 

Wrapping up, I don't know what direction I'm going with Youtube. Hopefully, I have a main channel for humor and a side channel for more in-depth talks like these, but who knows what the future holds.

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Alright, the entry is over, I promise. If you managed to read this whole thing, thanks. I really do appreciate it.

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Lol im not that much active here i lurk and post abit

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I also like this community and feel that many other forums are missing exactly that, a community.

Great job breaking down these points, I really like that you take the time to share your perception with others in such detail. I do hope to see you around the weekly anime discussion threads 😉we have quite a good time there.

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Reddit is an interesting beast. It’s hard to call it a community platform so much as its own brand of social media. I’d say it’s a little of both, and I think it depends largely on how populated the sub is. A lot of the points you made still apply. I participate in several small and private subs which do feel like an actual community because you do see a lot of the same names more than once. Discussions only seem to go so far, however. Due to the voting system, some threads may or may not see the light of day or get the proper discussion they deserve. Even in the comment section, the earliest comments often snowball to the top simply because it’s the first one somebody sees, and not everyone takes the time to venture to the bottom where the new comments are, or even sort by new. I’ve seen much better results in subs which the mods have enabled randomising post order and hidden scores- but these subs are few and far between, and it may even be possible a lot of them don’t even know they can do that.

 

When a sub breaches a certain popularity threshold and starts appearing on r/all is the point at which I have personally decided it’s a lurk-only sub at best. At this point, it is subject to not only the general ‘reddit hivemind’ (as many have come to call it,) but it becomes flooded with r/all tourists and their social media behaviour. Scroll, upvote, scroll, downvote. Very little actual discussion outside of a witty comment which gets thousands of upvotes and maybe a gild. As a reddit user for a number of years, it actually makes me laugh whenever I see the common argument about how reddit somehow isn’t social media. It is. It’s basically Twitter with anonymity. It’s gotten to be a massive presence on the internet over the years, but has it ever changed? No. It’s always been a time-sucking social media. And I can only agree with you when you say it really is not a healthy platform for meaningful discussion, especially so long as the voting system can essentially bury unpopular opinions and therefore create the very same echo chamber reddit claims to hate so much.

 

As for discord, I hear a lot of the same problems being repeated that people don’t like about it, and I think I have it worked out why that is; people who jump into discord expecting a community are going to have a bad time. I believe I’ve said this a few times here before, but discord is not a community. It isn’t made for thought-provoking or lengthy discussion. It is a chat/messenger platform, plain and simple. Can you make friends in it? Absolutely! But asking discord to serve the same function as a web forum is the same as expecting someone to read your blog post on AIM. People don’t fire up discord for that. I open discord to say good morning to my august bumpers group, or to share a meme with some friends from FFXIV. 

 

The reason web forums still exist (admittedly, they aren’t as booming as they were 15 years ago,) is because they serve a specific purpose which still cannot be replaced. As much as people try to argue social media is adequate for what a web forum can do, I find it is simply not true. They are without a doubt the best way to form what you could call a community on the internet. I wouldn’t even bother looking elsewhere to fill that need.

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Musuko

Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, Wedgy said:

Reddit is an interesting beast. It’s hard to call it a community platform so much as its own brand of social media. I’d say it’s a little of both, and I think it depends largely on how populated the sub is. A lot of the points you made still apply. I participate in several small and private subs which do feel like an actual community because you do see a lot of the same names more than once. Discussions only seem to go so far, however. Due to the voting system, some threads may or may not see the light of day or get the proper discussion they deserve. Even in the comment section, the earliest comments often snowball to the top simply because it’s the first one somebody sees, and not everyone takes the time to venture to the bottom where the new comments are, or even sort by new. I’ve seen much better results in subs which the mods have enabled randomising post order and hidden scores- but these subs are few and far between, and it may even be possible a lot of them don’t even know they can do that.

 

When a sub breaches a certain popularity threshold and starts appearing on r/all is the point at which I have personally decided it’s a lurk-only sub at best. At this point, it is subject to not only the general ‘reddit hivemind’ (as many have come to call it,) but it becomes flooded with r/all tourists and their social media behaviour. Scroll, upvote, scroll, downvote. Very little actual discussion outside of a witty comment which gets thousands of upvotes and maybe a gild. As a reddit user for a number of years, it actually makes me laugh whenever I see the common argument about how reddit somehow isn’t social media. It is. It’s basically Twitter with anonymity. It’s gotten to be a massive presence on the internet over the years, but has it ever changed? No. It’s always been a time-sucking social media. And I can only agree with you when you say it really is not a healthy platform for meaningful discussion, especially so long as the voting system can essentially bury unpopular opinions and therefore create the very same echo chamber reddit claims to hate so much.

 

As for discord, I hear a lot of the same problems being repeated that people don’t like about it, and I think I have it worked out why that is; people who jump into discord expecting a community are going to have a bad time. I believe I’ve said this a few times here before, but discord is not a community. It isn’t made for thought-provoking or lengthy discussion. It is a chat/messenger platform, plain and simple. Can you make friends in it? Absolutely! But asking discord to serve the same function as a web forum is the same as expecting someone to read your blog post on AIM. People don’t fire up discord for that. I open discord to say good morning to my august bumpers group, or to share a meme with some friends from FFXIV. 

 

The reason web forums still exist (admittedly, they aren’t as booming as they were 15 years ago,) is because they serve a specific purpose which still cannot be replaced. As much as people try to argue social media is adequate for what a web forum can do, I find it is simply not true. They are without a doubt the best way to form what you could call a community on the internet. I wouldn’t even bother looking elsewhere to fill that need.

I completely agree with all of your points. Reddit has been feeling more and more like a piece of social media than a forum, and discord does seem more like an messenger device now that you mention it. I just wish there were more alternatives to having intelligent discussion. Youtube videos have a balance between entertaining and educational, but it's also got its share of problems.

 

Thanks for the read and reply, I wish you a great day.

Edited by Kinbaryu
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Wedgy

Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, Kinbaryu said:

I completely agree with all of your points. Reddit has been feeling more and more like a piece of social media than a forum, and discord does seem more like an messenger device now that you mention it. I just wish there were more alternatives to having intelligent discussion. Youtube videos have a balance between entertaining and educational, but it's also got its share of problems.

 

Thanks for the read and reply, I wish you a great day.

I can't weigh in very much with YT in the context of your blog post. The one thing I have heard about is that YT has been trying to further monetise bigger channels' content to add more bricks into their own streaming service. This has put a strain on mid-range sized channels which rely on donations/Patreon support to remain afloat, as their exposure will dwindle as a result of the monetised channels getting darker shadows to stand in. 

I could have that a bit inaccurate, but I'm not what I'd consider at all active on that site so take that with a grain of salt. The extent of what I've learned about it comes from David Pakman after he explained what it meant for his own channel in one of his podcast/videos. 

Edited by Wedgy
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On 5/10/2019 at 9:02 AM, Wedgy said:

Reddit is an interesting beast. It’s hard to call it a community platform so much as its own brand of social media. I’d say it’s a little of both, and I think it depends largely on how populated the sub is. A lot of the points you made still apply. I participate in several small and private subs which do feel like an actual community because you do see a lot of the same names more than once. Discussions only seem to go so far, however. Due to the voting system, some threads may or may not see the light of day or get the proper discussion they deserve. Even in the comment section, the earliest comments often snowball to the top simply because it’s the first one somebody sees, and not everyone takes the time to venture to the bottom where the new comments are, or even sort by new. I’ve seen much better results in subs which the mods have enabled randomising post order and hidden scores- but these subs are few and far between, and it may even be possible a lot of them don’t even know they can do that.

 

When a sub breaches a certain popularity threshold and starts appearing on r/all is the point at which I have personally decided it’s a lurk-only sub at best. At this point, it is subject to not only the general ‘reddit hivemind’ (as many have come to call it,) but it becomes flooded with r/all tourists and their social media behaviour. Scroll, upvote, scroll, downvote. Very little actual discussion outside of a witty comment which gets thousands of upvotes and maybe a gild. As a reddit user for a number of years, it actually makes me laugh whenever I see the common argument about how reddit somehow isn’t social media. It is. It’s basically Twitter with anonymity. It’s gotten to be a massive presence on the internet over the years, but has it ever changed? No. It’s always been a time-sucking social media. And I can only agree with you when you say it really is not a healthy platform for meaningful discussion, especially so long as the voting system can essentially bury unpopular opinions and therefore create the very same echo chamber reddit claims to hate so much.

 

As for discord, I hear a lot of the same problems being repeated that people don’t like about it, and I think I have it worked out why that is; people who jump into discord expecting a community are going to have a bad time. I believe I’ve said this a few times here before, but discord is not a community. It isn’t made for thought-provoking or lengthy discussion. It is a chat/messenger platform, plain and simple. Can you make friends in it? Absolutely! But asking discord to serve the same function as a web forum is the same as expecting someone to read your blog post on AIM. People don’t fire up discord for that. I open discord to say good morning to my august bumpers group, or to share a meme with some friends from FFXIV. 

 

The reason web forums still exist (admittedly, they aren’t as booming as they were 15 years ago,) is because they serve a specific purpose which still cannot be replaced. As much as people try to argue social media is adequate for what a web forum can do, I find it is simply not true. They are without a doubt the best way to form what you could call a community on the internet. I wouldn’t even bother looking elsewhere to fill that need.

This pretty much sums it all up.

Good job @Wedgy 

But yeah it seems Reddit was just built differently. With it's upvote downvote system that reminds me of Stack Overflow and would seem to be more suited to Question and Answer websites.

And forums seem so ancient now. But they're still the best place to make friends online. Even on social media like Facebook. It's hard to meet new people because you wouldn't add a stranger. You would just add people you already know in real life.

It is interesting though how everyone here on Anime Forums is a nice person. At least from what I've seen so far. I remember joining MAL and right away I experienced some racism. Although to be fair the mods there took action when I reported it. 

The main difference I noticed comparing Anime Forums to MAL is that here, people actually engage in conversation. They talk and then listen. On MAL, everyone just talked. No one listened. On a typical thread, people would just post their replies. No one read the replies of others so no conversation ever takes place.

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