Profanity in Fiction?

I have read a lot of books and watched a lot of anime in my life to be able to detect how things can be improved or not, and one topic that comes up a lot is if a writer should use profanity in their work.

I created this thread because of Cy~'s status, and was wondering what you guys think.

For me, it really depends on what I am presented, because I have seen situations where using profanity actually enhances the emotional feel, and even situations in which the profanity does not sound natural, which bugs me more than anything.

However, in my own work, I usually refrain from using profanity, though my current manuscript has a character almost use profanity, because I do not use profanity in real life, as I can express myself in other ways, including joking around.

Yeah, definitely depends on content. I don't mind profanity in any amount. If 80% of the dialogue is filled with nothing but profanities, that wouldn't offend me, but it would come off as silly and unnecessary.

That said, I feel profanity is important in fiction to reflect a certain sense of realism. People use profanities a lot in real life after all. Additionally, there are other crude subjects in real life that I feel authors tend to avoid due to their controversial nature. This is something I personally find unnecessary, though I respect the author's wishes to refrain from it nonetheless. I find that, if you're going to color an idealistic veil over the truth, it feels like a lie and insincere. Yes, it is fiction, but personally, my favorite kind of fiction is the gritty and realistic kind, not some whimsy fantasy about friendship and magic. It's one reason why I dislike a lot of Marvel movies because of their whimsical nature (Guardians of the Galaxy comes to mind).

Anyway, I went off topic a little. Profanities are fine, but I would obviously find it to be jarring if its target audience is supposed to be children, like The Powerpuff Girls. However, I have enjoyed animation with a childish style that intentionally inserts profanity as a mean of satire. Now that is incredibly hilarious, and I love dark comedy like that. I think it really lies on the intent of the author who used the profanity in the first place. What meaning does the profanity have in the story? If it's just for the sake of swearing and nothing else (like a lot of Tarantino movies), then I do sometimes find it to be superfluous and, again, silly.

This may seem bitterly ironic, considering that my status update definitely expressed a certain viewpoint. However, I'm going to actually say no, with a technicality. I don't think that any fictional work absolutely needs profanity to communicate a point, but I don't think that a sprinkling of profanity hurts certain stories as long as it fits the character and setting.

This may seem bitterly ironic, considering that my status update definitely expressed a certain viewpoint. However, I'm going to actually say no, with a technicality. I don't think that any fictional work absolutely needs profanity to communicate a point, but I don't think that a sprinkling of profanity hurts certain stories as long as it fits the character and setting.

Humans are contradictory themselves, so I am not too surprised your opinion differs from how you sounded in your status.

I do agree with you though. Fiction does not absolutely need it, yet there are people that wonder why some writers do not use profanity.

I would agree with previous comments that it's not necessarily needed in writing, but, if it's a gritty character you're writing, I think you'd be remiss not to. In life, however, it is absolutely needed.

I was all good with the Profanity in Pulp Fiction

You know what, I don't think that I actually understood the question here as clearly as I would have liked.

@brycec Are you interested in knowing if profanity MUST be included in fictional works? Or, are you asking if profanity SHOULD be included in fictional works?

I actually interpreted this as a "must" based on the use of the word "need" in the original question. Was that what you meant though, or was I a bit off? Errr, in other words, could you restate the question in a different way?

You know what, I don't think that I actually understood the question here as clearly as I would have liked.

 

@brycec Are you interested in knowing if profanity MUST be included in fictional works? Or, are you asking if profanity SHOULD be included in fictional works?

 

I actually interpreted this as a "must" based on the use of the word "need" in the original question. Was that what you meant though, or was I a bit off? Errr, in other words, could you restate the question in a different way?

I think you read it correctly the first time

About the only thing that I can do is some formatting to make it clearer, or add in a few more words, but it will not change much (I opt for using bold and italics more than capitalization to denote things that need emphasis).

I don't mind profanity in fiction and would in fact use such in fictional works of my own if portraying a realistic world.

For instance, if you're writing a book full of magic and fairies and stuff like that, then I don't think you need profanity and the like; but if you're writing a story meant to be realistic and relatable for the reader, then the use of profanity, I think, enhances the realism.

I do have a big problem with blasphemies though due to my religion and would never use those in fictional works, but everything else is fair, game I think.

Seeing as though the scale is tilted, I think that I need to say a thing here.

I don't actually think that profanity adds much realism to a story, to be honest.

Why do you *need* profanity? Are you writing something gritty? It's actually possible to write a dirty, gritty story without a single word of profanity. Are you writing something grim? It's actually possible to write a grim, horrific story without a single word of profanity. Are you writing a hard boiled character? There are actually ways of communicating this that are just as effective and that don't rely on profanity.

What is profanity? It's just a set of words considered taboo within a culture. Do you still need profanity if you decide to just write out whatever is taboo is visceral, long, descriptive format? I could give examples here, but they would get me banned on this site, hahaha. Instead, I'll just ask people to seriously think.

Are you 100% certain that profanity is the most horrible thing that you could write to describe anger? To describe surprise? To describe sadness? If you are, then you really, really haven't tried hard enough to plumb the depths of your own darkness. Profanity is often used as a shortcut to shock value by writers that are far too lazy to think of a more complex way to make their point.

Many beginning writers use profanity as a crutch. They'll have a character swear when they're upset, when they're happy, when they're wrathful. It makes it easier for the writer, because they can be "realistic" by just spewing vulgarities. This completely ignores the fact that we don't feel in swear words.

Humans are sensitive, emotive creatures. We feel with every fiber, every orifice, every single portion of our beings. Profanity is just simple vulgarity. To those that are voting that a need for profanity "depends", I challenge you. Tell me a situation that "requires" profanity, and I'll turn it on its head.

The true answer to this question is that profanity is not actually necessary for a written work. It can be included, and it can actually be used to great effect. However, it is not something that fictional works "need", and I'd challenge anyone that says otherwise. En garde!

I honestly think profanity is needed not because it's "gritty" or whatever, but because it's a common part of our society. It's like bad drivers and smoking. They're not necessarily gritty, they're just there. You might find bad drivers offensive, you might find smoking intolerable (like I do). That doesn't make it gritty or edgy.

I mean, s***, I would use more profanity around here if it isn't a kid-friendly site.

I honestly think profanity is needed not because it's "gritty" or whatever, but because it's a common part of our society. It's like bad drivers and smoking. They're not necessarily gritty, they're just there. You might find bad drivers offensive, you might find smoking intolerable (like I do). That doesn't make it gritty or edgy.

That's probably a different perspective as compared to the one that a lot of folks had when voting.

Not to be contrarian (though that is my tendency), but I'd make the argument that just because something is present in society doesn't necessarily make it a factor that is necessary to portray the human experience. In other words, the human experience contains profanity, but profanity is not the foundation of what it means to be human. Ergo, profanity is still not a "need" when writing.

Not to be contrarian (though that is my tendency), but I'd make the argument that just because something is present in society doesn't necessarily make it a factor that is necessary to portray the human experience. In other words, the human experience contains profanity, but profanity is not the foundation of what it means to be human. Ergo, profanity is still not a "need" when writing.

Mhm, that is exactly the kind of attitude I couldn't tolerate in art. I couldn't tolerate that there are some things in life that need to be filtered out. Nothing in life should be off the table and be censored. That's my stance, and I'll never change it.

And yes, if you're wondering, that includes rape. But that's another topic.

Mhm, that is exactly the kind of attitude I couldn't tolerate in art. I couldn't tolerate that there are some things in life that need to be filtered out. Nothing in life should be filtered out. That's my stance, and I'll never change it.

I think that you're misinterpreting my argument, harshly.

I'm saying that profanity isn't a requirement for fiction. You seem to think that I'm saying that profanity should be "filtered out". That's basically the total opposite of what I'm arguing.

I'm saying that profanity isn't a "need", it's a "can have". In other words, I'm meandering around with semantics. If you think that I'm saying that profanity should be excluded, you're fucking off-base (pun intended).

Mhm, that is exactly the kind of attitude I couldn't tolerate in art. I couldn't tolerate that there are some things in life that need to be filtered out. Nothing in life should be off the table and be censored. That's my stance, and I'll never change it.

 

And yes, if you're wondering, that includes rape. But that's another topic.

Don't forget that writers can sometimes have the profanity feel unnatural, like I noted in the OP, and that is a big sign that it is not needed.

I still find the whole negative notion on the subject of profanity silly at best. I mean, the only reason people find it offensive is because they gave it a negative undertone. Profanities have been used for comedic effect and even in positive conversations.

It's like, the more you avoid it, the more unnatural it becomes. This is where the whole unnatural feeling came from in the first place. It's the same as sex. People avoid talking about sex like it's some taboo subject when we're all adults here. Thus, it becomes unnatural to talk about.

The lesson, kids: don't avoid f***. Make f*** your best pal. F*** needs that exposure.

I still find the whole negative notion on the subject of profanity silly at best.

It is silly! I'm just being devil's advocate in here, because someone should. Besides, it keeps the wits sharp to argue perspectives that you don't necessarily fully endorse. AND THEN SWITCH SIDES.

Profanities have been used for comedic effect and even in positive conversations.

Look, I'm a girl that swears like a drunken sailor. I swear and I am extremely, extremely vulgar (in a classy way, because I am very classy). Almost everything that I write is laced with expletives in the extreme. Zoop sometimes has to literally put her hand over my mouth when something happens and I cut loose.

I don't feel guilty. It's how I talk! Trust me, I get it, I know exactly what you're talking about. Have you even read my posts around here? Sometimes, I really can't make my point without saying something that's a little wild. It just happens. I don't really care about it and none of the mods have poked me yet.

You're barking up the wrong tree, if you think that I'm this Disney Princess Saint. However, it's worth noting that it's actually extremely difficult to disprove the argument that I made above. That doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it wrong. Thus, my original point stands as well as this completely contradictory post.

And, now, see? This is the reason that I'm still single married to @zoop (the only person as weird as I am and who has the patience for my shit).

I still find the whole negative notion on the subject of profanity silly at best. I mean, the only reason people find it offensive is because they gave it a negative undertone. Profanities have been used for comedic effect and even in positive conversations.

 

It's like, the more you avoid it, the more unnatural it becomes. This is where the whole unnatural feeling came from in the first place. It's the same as sex. People avoid talking about sex like it's some taboo subject when we're all adults here. Thus, it becomes unnatural to talk about.

 

The lesson, kids: don't avoid f***. Make f*** your best pal. F*** needs that exposure.

I agree with most of this. The less often it is used does make it feel more unnatural than if it were common, but even human speech, as it is now, has profanity seem natural.

For example, let us say a bomber is talking to his victim on the phone and says, "There's a freaking bomb on the bike" (This is an actual example, with some possible differences). To me, this feels unnatural, because this is something the person on the bike would say, not a bomber, especially if there was no mention of a bomb before.

For me, here's the thing, profanity can be a part of the story, yet if the curse is placed wrong, or doesn't flow with the rest of the context, it's obvious. A good example I have is while reading--I hardly if not ever read anymore now a days. But in the last Harry Potter book, Ron's mother calls someone a "bitch" and besides that it is in capital letters. I hate reading capital letters in a book, it's more out of place than anything but even the context felt off and brought me out of the immersion of the story. A good example I can give for where profanity works is Grand Torino, it's a great movie and I do suggest it. Rated R for a lot of profanity.

New story idea, Sir.motherfucker of the little town shits-creek went out for an evening stroll to the local pub bastard-maker to buy himself a beer. The barkeep there, Mr.Fuckwad, was a good friend of his, indeed the two of them had spent many a night discussing the origins, dimensions and fabled properties of his wife's ass, or more to the point, her inherited name, Mrs.Ass. He spotted, Mrs.Soulless-Bitch on the other end of the street and waved towards her amicably as he could manage, truly she was an unpleasant person. Sir.Motherfucker hadn't noticed it at first, but he soon came to realize this fact when she began to gossip and badmouth Mr.Fuckwad, even going so far as to call him a "thick dirty wad of a man". Still, he did his best to get along with the citizens of shits-creek, and making her his enemy would do no-one any good. He silently wondered if it had anything to do with her relationship to her parents, Mrs.Rotting-Bitch the third and Mr.Alchoholic-piece-of-shit.